Your view on birth control?

[progressivegal]

oops, I missread option two as being "including abortions" instead of what it actually is "EXCLUDING abortions". Option two it is for me then.

 

[treerootbill]

I believe barrier methods are OK. I am undecided about the pill, and the morning after pill is certainly bad.

Abortion is a terrible event.

 

[Macano]

My wife takes birth control pill, but not as pregnancy prevention, but rather for symptom management. She has been hospitalized twice this year alone due to extreme pain of her "female plumbing." This pain was not necessarily associated with periods, some months it was, other times it was nearly constant day after day for weeks at a time, during which she could barely function. By extreme pain I mean that she would pass out from the pain. She has suffered injuries as a result of passing out, ie hit her head and sprained her foot. After she awakes, she couldn't walk for some hours, as her legs would go completely numb. Trust me, her pain was ruining her life.

After many, many specialist visits, (and a lot of medical bills!) we were left with two options: Birth control to manage the pain and suppress the problem that causes it in the first place, or a complete hysterectomy, along with removal of both ovaries. We chose the first option, as we still want kids. Once we want kids, she will have to get off birth control and endure pain until they are born. After that she will get the surgery. Just to be clear, the doctors tried all sorts of pain meds, and NONE helped. Even with Codeine she was in tears. The BC has allowed her to return to a normal life, however, and I thank God it is around, as I couldn't bear to see her in such horrible misery. It broke my heart to see her suffer like that and not be able to help her.

 

[kidsminister]

Exactly! Birth control pills are often used for more than just preventing pregnancy.

I know they worked the best for me to control my cramps, which was honestly the main reason I used them after I got married. Unfortunately, they made me an emotional basket case, so it's been Natural Family Planning for us since (it obviously works; 3 years of that method and no kids!).

But the downside is that I still suffer from horrible, almost unbearable cramps 2-3 days a month. I take Tylenol Arthritis, which contains 650 mg of pain relief in one tablet (I take two for cramps!), and it makes me better in the sense that I can walk and function semi-normally.

 

[lismore]

Hi Macano

How are you

Sorry to hear about your wife, did you try

My wife takes birth control pill, but not as pregnancy prevention, but rather for symptom management. She has been hospitalized twice this year alone due to extreme pain of her "female plumbing." This pain was not necessarily associated with periods, some months it was, other times it was nearly constant day after day for weeks at a time, during which she could barely function. By extreme pain I mean that she would pass out from the pain. She has suffered injuries as a result of passing out, ie hit her head and sprained her foot. After she awakes, she couldn't walk for some hours, as her legs would go completely numb. Trust me, her pain was ruining her life.

After many, many specialist visits, (and a lot of medical bills!) we were left with two options: Birth control to manage the pain and suppress the problem that causes it in the first place, or a complete hysterectomy, along with removal of both ovaries. We chose the first option, as we still want kids. Once we want kids, she will have to get off birth control and endure pain until they are born. After that she will get the surgery. Just to be clear, the doctors tried all sorts of pain meds, and NONE helped. Even with Codeine she was in tears. The BC has allowed her to return to a normal life, however, and I thank God it is around, as I couldn't bear to see her in such horrible misery. It broke my heart to see her suffer like that and not be able to help her.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Personally I feel that any method of brith control is wrong, but from the standpoint of scripture I would say that I cannot find any mandate against barrier methods. I do think they denying either aspect of sex (procreation or recreation) is dead wrong as it denied the fullness of something God created but that is not mentioned as being sinful. The reformers went too far and denied the recreational aspect of sex in their condemnation of any form of birth control and that is partially why Protestant denoms in the past ~70 years have begun to teach birth control as being acceptable. I also am against NFP for the most part as it involves denying your spouse. If the couple were to follow scripture and fast and pray during that period each and every month then I couldn't argue against it but if that is not happening then scripture is being gone against. After much study the only answer I can come up with is that barrier methods would be a matter of conscience as they are never mentioned in scripture.

 

[e=mv^2]

If the couple were to follow scripture and fast and pray during that period each and every month then I couldn't argue against it but if that is not happening then scripture is being gone against.

At that point aren't you using fasting as a method of birth control? I think that would be an improper reason to fast.

 

[Sketcher]

But if God is in control of His responses, then praying and fasting is not some magic formula that we can use to control Him. I don't see how that could be birth control, unless women can't concieve when they haven't eaten for several days.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

But if God is in control of His responses, then praying and fasting is not some magic formula that we can use to control Him. I don't see how that could be birth control, unless women can't concieve when they haven't eaten for several days.

Scripture says to not deny one another except for a time of prayer and fasting, which is why I stated that. NFP requires denying one another so if you are going to do that and follow scripture you would pray and fast during that time.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

At that point aren't you using fasting as a method of birth control? I think that would be an improper reason to fast.

Since scripture doesn't address the reasons for fasting and praying in that situation I don't think we can say it would be wrong. I personally do not believe in it but I am going on what I can back up with scripture. We are quiverfull and have 5 kids right now and there is no BC anywhere around this house. But in regards to what I can tell others is wrong and right according to scripture NFP with fasting and prayer has to fall under right,

 

[£amb]

I use birth control to help maintain a regular menstration. Sorry gentlemen if this sounds yucky. I am unable to get pregnant naturally without the use of fertility medicine. Birth control for me is not about not wanting children...it's to help me with my "womanly" issues.

 

[progressivegal]

Since scripture doesn't address the reasons for fasting and praying in that situation I don't think we can say it would be wrong. I personally do not believe in it but I am going on what I can back up with scripture. We are quiverfull and have 5 kids right now and there is no BC anywhere around this house. But in regards to what I can tell others is wrong and right according to scripture NFP with fasting and prayer has to fall under right,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "quiverfull"?

 

[e=mv^2]

Fasting for the purpose of legalizing denial of sex. You do not see a problem with that? You are staring out with the premise that you will deny sex and then find a way to excuse it. When you start out with a sin (or any wrong action) and then look for ways to go about it legally you are on a dangerous path.

Not a good option I would say.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Fasting for the purpose of legalizing denial of sex. You do not see a problem with that? You are staring out with the premise that you will deny sex and then find a way to excuse it. When you start out with a sin (or any wrong action) and then look for ways to go about it legally you are on a dangerous path.

Not a good option I would say.

I stated I did not agree but to call it sin would be fallacy. If a couple decides to fast and pray during a time of abstinence so as not have children they are following scripture. By fasting and praying they will be drawing closer to God and if they are in the wrong it is the perfect time for the spirit to convict them in their error. To call something sin that the Bible does not call sin is not somewhere I am willing to go.

 

[TwinCrier]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "quiverfull"?

A quiver ia the tube that bow hunters carry their arrows in, it's used in the bible as a metaphor for have all the children God would choose to bless you with. Read Psalm 27 for the context of it.

 

[kidsminister]

Scripture says to not deny one another except for a time of prayer and fasting, which is why I stated that. NFP requires denying one another so if you are going to do that and follow scripture you would pray and fast during that time.

Well...I don't necessarily believe that you are "denying" each other if you're both in agreement not to have sex.

If my husband or me is "in the mood," but the other one is feeling ill, for instance, it's called being respectful not to DEMAND sex. It's for mutual enjoyment, not just so that one partner can get their jollies!

How often and at what times a married couple chooses to enjoy sex is nobody's business but that couple's!!

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Well...I don't necessarily believe that you are "denying" each other if you're both in agreement not to have sex.

But the issue becomes what if one partner feels the urge?

If my husband or me is "in the mood," but the other one is feeling ill, for instance, it's called being respectful not to DEMAND sex. It's for mutual enjoyment, not just so that one partner can get their jollies!

If one partner doesn't ask then the other is not denying, and a day or two of illness is quite different than the length of time required for NFP.

How often and at what times a married couple chooses to enjoy sex is nobody's business but that couple's!!

It's not any other human's business, but it is God's.

 

[e=mv^2]

I stated I did not agree but to call it sin would be fallacy. If a couple decides to fast and pray during a time of abstinence so as not have children they are following scripture. By fasting and praying they will be drawing closer to God and if they are in the wrong it is the perfect time for the spirit to convict them in their error. To call something sin that the Bible does not call sin is not somewhere I am willing to go.

It was not my intention to say that denial of sex was a sin. My point was that if you start out with the intention to do something bad (including sin) then go about looking for methods to justify it then that becomes a problem.

Why are you fasting? If you are fasting to draw nearer to God then great! If you are fasting to be able to justify something that you could not justify otherwise then you may be doing it for the wrong reason.

A. Only fasting that is done with the right motive, that of glorifying God, can be pleasing in His sight.

Isaiah chapter 58 "Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? ... Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure ... ye fast for strife and debate ... ye shall not fast as ye do this day ... Is it such a fast that I have chosen? To loose the bands ... to undo the heavy burdens ... to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? When thou seest the naked, that thou cover him ..."

Zechariah 7:5-6 "... When ye fasted and mourned ... those 70 years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?"

Matthew 6:16-18 "The hypocrites ... disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast."

Luke 18:9-14 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I am not as other men are ... I fast twice in the week ..."

Is fasting with the intent of denying your partner sex a proper motive? I would say no it is not.

Also - who among us can live if we only eat 2 weeks out of each month? You would die!

Well...I don't necessarily believe that you are "denying" each other if you're both in agreement not to have sex.

But the issue becomes what if one partner feels the urge?

If you have agreed that for x period of time you will not ahve sex and then you feel the urge then you deny yourself.

If one partner doesn't ask then the other is not denying, and a day or two of illness is quite different than the length of time required for NFP.

You are now saying that you can go for a longer period witout food than you can without sex.
While I almost agree with you on this one - it simply is not the case. You need to eat more than 2 weeks out of every month in order to be heathly and live well.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

e=mv^2, you do realize that I mostly agree with you. It's not two weeks anyway but that's beside the point. The issue about one partner feeling the urge could actually be restated as the husband feeling the urge because we, as men and myself included, have a darn hard time keeping our desires to ourselves. As stated I don't agree with NFP but cannot make a case or it being sinful if the couple is fasting and praying. Their motives are between them and God and if we have to get into that you would likely find I agree with you for the most part. I do think it is possible for a couple to set aside that time to draw closer to God and seek his guidance on family planning. Possible yes, likely no. It would require much more discipline than anyone I know has but it remains a possibility.

I have personally fasted for longer than two weeks and have not died. It was not for this reason at all. And I am not stating that brag, far be it from me to brag on myself, but I suffered no loss of energy so the only answer I have is that God sustained me. Do I think I could do it again? If called to then yes I could. Did I get an answer to prayer? Yes. Was it the one I wanted? Nope. Was I sure it was from God? You better believe it! I don't think the length of time is an issue if the heart is in the right place. Like I said possible but not likely.

 

[e=mv^2]

I understand and perhaps I am being picky.

Of course it isn't the 2 (or whatever) weeks. It is 2 weeks out of every month over the course of years that would be unhealthy...
This is how legalism gets started isn't it? People getting too picky about small things.

Maybe it would be better for me to focus on other things.