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Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

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Aman777

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Bungle:>>Priceless. "Their kind" and "his kind" are refering to incarnations of god, but "her kind" refers to female birds?

Aman:>>No. You are confused. You looked up "her kind" looking for a reference to God being female and got the heron "her kind". Your faux confusion is refuted.


Bungle:>>Let's just agree I've refuted your nonsense.

Aman:>>In your dreams. I post of God's Truth which agrees with every other discovered Truth of mankind. Faith plus Fact equals an un-refutable Truth.

Lately, someone has been posting that they refuted me or proved me wrong Scripturally. Not so.
 
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Hank77

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It's a job description, not a scientific account of how we got here.
Man is a spiritual being made in God's image.
Neanderthal DNA has been found in modern man. Was Neanderthal man made in God's image?
 
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The Barbarian

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How do you explain man being created in God's image?

That's a good question. First, if God actually had a body, it wouldn't be beyond His powers to use "time and chance" along with necessity, to create us in His physical image. (which He doesn't have)

Jesus tells us that God is a spirit and He says a spirit has no body. The "image" is in our minds and immortal souls.
 
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Hank77

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That's a good question. First, if God actually had a body, it wouldn't be beyond His powers to use "time and chance" along with necessity, to create us in His physical image. (which He doesn't have)

Jesus tells us that God is a spirit and He says a spirit has no body. The "image" is in our minds and immortal souls.
I'm not talking about a physical image, and the verse isn't talking about a physical image.
When was man's soul made in the image and likeness of God?

Neanderthal DNA has been found in modern man. Was Neanderthal man made in God's image?
 
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The Barbarian

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I'm not talking about a physical image, and the verse isn't talking about a physical image.
When was man's soul made in the image and likeness of God?

Man was given a living soul when he was created. He became like God when he gained the knowledge of good and evil.

Neanderthal DNA has been found in modern man. Was Neanderthal man made in God's image?

We don't know when this gift was given by God; my guess is that it was before H. sapiens divided into subspecies. So yes, I think Neandertals were also made in God's image.
 
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JackRT

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We don't know when this gift was given by God; my guess is that it was before H. sapiens divided into subspecies. So yes, I think Neandertals were also made in God's image.

Neandertals predate Homo Sapiens by a considerable margin in time. There are also no subspecies of Homo Sapiens.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Bungle:>>Priceless. "Their kind" and "his kind" are refering to incarnations of god, but "her kind" refers to female birds?

Aman:>>No. You are confused. You looked up "her kind" looking for a reference to God being female and got the heron "her kind". Your faux confusion is refuted.


Bungle:>>Let's just agree I've refuted your nonsense.

Aman:>>In your dreams. I post of God's Truth which agrees with every other discovered Truth of mankind. Faith plus Fact equals an un-refutable Truth.

Lately, someone has been posting that they refuted me or proved me wrong Scripturally. Not so.
That's some nicely incomplete, cherry picked quoting. The truth is there for all to see. Even a fellow creationist who I very rarely see eye-to-eye with backed me up. You were refuted, you don't like it and you would rather lie than admit it.
 
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sfs

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Man is a spiritual being made in God's image.
I was suggesting you reconsider what "made in God's image" means. I find the argument persuasive that it means primarily a vocation, to serve as God's representative, rather than being a statement about our nature. See J. Richard Middleton's The Liberating Image for evidence (Biblical and ANE) supporting this understanding of the image of God.
 
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The Barbarian

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Neandertals predate Homo Sapiens by a considerable margin in time. There are also no subspecies of Homo Sapiens.

Anatomically modern humans, Neandertals, and Denesovans diverged from archaic H. sapiens. I recognize that there are disagreements on this point:

The category archaic human lacks a single, agreed upon definition.[2] According to one definition, Homo sapiens is a single species comprising several subspecies that include the archaics and modern humans. Under this definition, modern humans are referred to as Homo sapiens sapiens and archaics are also designated with the prefix "Homo sapiens". For example, the Neanderthals are Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, and Homo heidelbergensis is Homo sapiens heidelbergensis. Other taxonomists prefer not to consider archaics and modern humans as a single species but as several different species. In this case the standard taxonomy is used, i.e. Homo rhodesiensis, or Homo neanderthalensis.[2]

The evolutionary dividing lines that separate modern humans from archaic humans and archaic humans from Homo erectus are unclear. The earliest known fossils of anatomically modern humans such as the Omo remains from 195,000 years ago, Homo sapiens idaltu from 160,000 years ago, and Qafzeh remains from 90,000 years ago are recognizably modern humans. However, these early modern humans do possess a number of archaic traits, such as moderate, but not prominent, brow ridges.
Archaic humans - Wikipedia


To me, the fact of interbreeding of Neandertals, Denesovans, and anatomically modern humans is evidence that they are all subspecies of H. sapiens. Since they Neandertals exhibited behaviors we consider human, and since their genome is sufficiently similar to ours, I consider them to be a subspecies, as we are.
 
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the iconoclast

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No. Evolution was a "what if" when it was first thought of. Then scientists considered the evidence and concluded that it had happened.

Hey hey brother :) My super fun time thread got shut down. Dont worry it will continue here :)

"To a scientist, though, the right question is not, “Were you there?” but rather “What if?” What if we do share a common ancestor–what should we see? How can we test a hypothesis about the ancient past?"

The core question to the article you supplied is "what if" we share a common ancestor. This is a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence. The claim being made is humans and chimpanzees descended from a single ancestral species over millions of years. The evidence suggested is similar mutations to proof shared ancestry.

So scientists concluded if shared ancestry is true, these differences result from lots of mutations that have accumulated in the two lineages over millions of years.

This is a conclusion based on an theory that mutations accumulate over millions of years. So still a 'what if' scenario.

It was an ape that lived about 7 million years ago.

How do you know it was an ape that lived 7 million years ago? Is this confirmed or assumed?

What is the common ancestor of a human and a pig?

What is the common ancestor of a human and a mouse?

Since we're not living 7 million years ago, I don't know how I'm supposed to point you to it.

7 million is quite a specific number, how is this number certain/verified and why not 10 million or 13.578 million?

Can u point to such a thing? Why is that?

What does this have to do with the evidence we're talking about?

You supplied an article about mutations and a connection between 2 species for common ancestry. This ancestor is very relevant.

I don't know what that means. What trend does it assume?

"On the other hand, if humans and chimpanzees appeared by special creation, we would not expect their genetic differences to bear the distinctive signature of descent from a common ancestor."

Trend - a general direction in which something is developing or changing.

It assumes that these genetic differences bear the signature of common descent. How do genetic differences prove common descent?

Yes. Are you aware that your question has nothing to do with what you quoted?

Brother you supplied an article about common descent and mutations. My question is relevant.

Ill need you to work, What is an example of a postive mutation?

Because we see the same pattern in differences between humans and chimps as between two humans.

"If I have an A and you have a C at a specific location, unless we have our ancestors’ DNA to look at, we cannot tell whether it was originally an A that mutated into a C in your DNA, or whether it was originally a C that mutated into an A in my DNA."

"Thus we have to lump the two possibilities together and just count the number of places one of us has an A and the other a C."

These 2 paragraphs interests me. If we cannot get access to our ancestors dna then 'we have to lump the 2 possibilities together'.

So here is where something comes unstuck. Does this mean we have limited ecidence and now have to assume with probability?

We know the latter is caused by mutation.

How do you know this? What evidence do you have that proves it was caused by mutation?

If you have an alternative explanation for why we see the same pattern, by all means offer it.

Im viewing your evidence and asking questions. I will offer my explanation once im satisfied with the discussion. :)

This is a pattern:


This is the same pattern:


Do the two figures really not look similar to you?

They do look similar in their height but not the same.

The articles main reason to exist is the question; Do humans and chimpanzees shared a common ancestor and what should we see?

What we should see.
Genetic differences between the species that look like they were produced by mutations?

In case i have misunderstood, could you please explain to me how genetic differences are produced by mutations?

How does a shared ancestor dna mutate into 2 different species?

Does this mean that because the 2 charts are similar, i can procreate with a healthy chimp the same as i can procreate with a healthy and different human?

I'm sorry. I was under the impression you wanted to discuss the evidence.

Dont worry you are not labouring under a misapprehension. Here i am running to you and not in a different direction. :)

You show no sign of having understood what the evidence is,

Lucky i have you to help me. :)

much less engaged with it in a meaningful way.

Please excuse me. It takes time to warm up. :)

We can move on to another piece of evidence when you've dealt with this one.

Great, cant wait. :)

Now, the question is simple: why do the two patterns of genetic difference look so similar?

In case i do.not understand. Why?

Cheers i look forward to this discussion more so that any ive had recently. :)

God bless you my brother in Christ :)
 
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Jimmy D

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