Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes ,acter all, felids ( cat ancestors) evolved from miacids

"What's in a name? That which we call a felid
By any other name would still be a miacid." [with apologies to Shakespeare]

Although I thought it was canids that evolved from miacids, but I'm no expert.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's the old Exodus 20:11 argument.

Oh good grief - that's not a reiteration, at best it's a single indirect reference.

Meh.

 

[Micah888]

Interesting - which commandments talk of the creation?

EXODUS 20

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger thatis within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Speedwell]

It would be a more convincing argument if some explanation was offered for the change of voicing in that passage which, in a language like Hebrew with no quotation marks, would ordinarily indicate a parenthetical insertion by the transcriber.

 

[inquiring mind]

But it doesn't do anything for the evidence of living creatures and humans. Our genes are too diverse to be descended from a single couple around 10 thousand years ago. There are too many developed civilisations that predate most ideas about the date of the Garden of Eden.

Nowhere that I know of does the Bible date the Garden of Eden, but whatever date is correct, I don't see God having a problem with putting a diversity of genes in His re-creation.

Not completely, no. But you do have to ignore a whole lot.

I don't know why it would be necessary to deny any well-evidenced evolution up to a Gap, as long as it is considered put in place by God.

I suspect to justify the lack of genetic evidence for the re-creation of Gap theory, you end up having to invoke most of the YEC hand waves and miracles anyway.

Similar pre-Gap species could have been re-created in post-Gap, even though Adamic man was a totally different re-creation. This is "out there" I know, but so is the belief that shrew-like mammals morphed into every kind of known animal, and eventually humans over time.

 

[FormerAtheist]

The existance or non-existance of god(s) is outside the realm of science.

Then why not teach ID in schools?

 

[FormerAtheist]

The only people redifining what "theory" means in science, are creationists and cdesign proponentsists. Take Michael Behe for example on the Dover trial... One of the ID heroes, being an actual PhD guy. He redefined "scientific theory" in such a way that he could call ID to be such a "theory". The punchline being that under that new definition - astrology ALSO qualifies as a "scientific theory". You know, astrology.... horoscopes and such.

Go figure.

Evolution theory on the other hand, doesn't require any redefining of the word "theory" in scientific context.



Evolution and abiogenesis are two different subject. They're even seperate scientific fields.
Evolution theory doesn't address the origins of life itself.
Even if you wish to say that God seeded life on this planet, evolution is perfectly compatible with that (as long as the claim isn't that he created evolved creatures from scratch, which off course is not compatible with the facts of genetics).

Except you have mostly fully evolved creatures in the fossil records.

 

[Brightmoon]

"What's in a name? That which we call a felid
By any other name would still be a miacid." [with apologies to Shakespeare]

Although I thought it was canids that evolved from miacids, but I'm no expert.

Both felid and canid branches of the Carnivora evolved from miacids. In English- dogs and cats share a common ancestry

 

[Brightmoon]

Then why not teach ID in schools?

. Because ID is not science nor is it scientific. It is artificially inflating an unverifiable religious belief and calling it a fact . Science only deals with natural phenomena and cannot and does not deal with supernatural causation. I’m a Christian not an atheist, I just happen to be scientifically literate

 

[Brightmoon]

This is "out there" I know, but so is the belief that shrew-like mammals morphed into every kind of known animal, and eventually humans over time.

I’m assuming that that was a typo. shrew like( but not shrews) mammals evolved into modern mammals. Not all animals . Something that you would probably call a worm evolved into all of the bilaterians. The wormlike organism turned upside down so that the nerve cord ran along the ventral side . The gut ran along the dorsal side. and these “worms” eventually evolved into the arthropods . On our side of the family tree the “worm” ancestor stayed right side up

 

[inquiring mind]

I’m assuming that that was a typo. shrew like( but not shrews) mammals evolved into modern mammals. Not all animals . Something that you would probably call a worm evolved into all of the bilaterians. The wormlike organism turned upside down so that the nerve cord ran along the ventral side . The gut ran along the dorsal side. and these “worms” eventually evolved into the arthropods . On our side of the family tree the “worm” ancestor stayed right side up

Thanks for the science lesson, but I hope that wasn't your only take from my post.

 

[VirOptimus]

Then why not teach ID in schools?

Because ID is religion.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Then why not teach ID in schools?

-_- for the same reason we don't teach kids about the possibility that ghosts exists, or evil sentient clouds, etc. Lack of evidence for it.

 

[Jimmy D]

Except you have mostly fully evolved creatures in the fossil records.

What?

 

[Skreeper]

Except you have mostly fully evolved creatures in the fossil records.

As opposed to only half evolved creatures? That doesn't even make sense.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

EXODUS 20

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger thatis within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

OK; thanks.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Except you have mostly fully evolved creatures in the fossil records.

Seriously? what does that even mean?

 

[tas8831]

Then why not teach ID in schools?

What would be taught? ID has no evidence in its support. What do you envision? Maybe something like this:



Teacher: "This is the fossil record showing a transition between X and Y. Now, ID claims that as since nobody was there to see it, this didn't happen, plus they claim they have math,"

Student: "Teacher? What is the evidence that supports ID?"

Teacher: "Analogies."

Student: "So... Nothing, then?"

 

[Brightmoon]

Thanks for the science lesson, but I hope that wasn't your only take from my post.

The only thing I get from your posts is that you’re trying to make the fact that you’re not literate in science mean that we should believe unverified religious stories as if they are a verified history

 

[FormerAtheist]

What would be taught? ID has no evidence in its support. What do you envision? Maybe something like this:



Teacher: "This is the fossil record showing a transition between X and Y. Now, ID claims that as since nobody was there to see it, this didn't happen, plus they claim they have math,"

Student: "Teacher? What is the evidence that supports ID?"

Teacher: "Analogies."

Student: "So... Nothing, then?"

What would be taught? ID has no evidence in its support. What do you envision? Maybe something like this:



Teacher: "This is the fossil record showing a transition between X and Y. Now, ID claims that as since nobody was there to see it, this didn't happen, plus they claim they have math,"

Student: "Teacher? What is the evidence that supports ID?"

Teacher: "Analogies."

Student: "So... Nothing, then?"

Actually ID'ers have made an excellent textbook that is far better then anything currently in highschool and teaches real science. But how bout teaching kids that there is an alternative idea at least that. Or what about teaching kids that there are conflicts and conflicting data and all of the past hoaxes and false starts in evolutionary theory? Or how about teaching them that there are hundreds of scientists that are bailing. Their jumping off the boat like there is a zombie plague on board lol. Its fun to watch. Hey I jumped off too bro ... its better over here. Be on the winning team. Like I said in my first post on this forum the science isn't on the side of atheism. That's why I left and that's why hundreds of scientists are leaving. It is what it is.