Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

Aman777 said:

You're just mad because you cannot refute my views in ANY way. I'm sorry. Perhaps you could change your SN in order to escape future embarrassment.

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No, that is a falsehood. Everybody and their aunts have refuted your beliefs. What is a bit irritating is that you refuse to learn any of the sciences even at a middle school level.

Aman777 said:

Aman777 said: ↑
Today, ole Carl is proclaiming his agreement with Scripture, and wants everyone to think he was always a Creationist. In the end, many will claim to be converted Creationists.

[QUOTE="pitabread, post: 74292197, member: 394892"WHAT?

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Sagan is trying to avoid a righteous judgment by claiming to be like me. I'm a converted Creationist, converted from a belief in evolution.[/QUOTE]
And "belief" is your problem. You should have learned. Then you would know. Creationists only have belief and they make the error of thinking that is the plight of others as well.

Speedwell said:

There isn't one. "Evolutionists" don't argue against the Christian God. Some atheists who are also "evolutionists"may argue against the Christian God but they do it on their own behalf, not as "evolutionists." The theory of evolution does not deny the existence of the Christian God. It only inconveniences certain Christian minorities who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

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Hey hey saint

You cant resist reading my posts can you? Im flattered that i have your attention ;p

Isaiah 66:2
"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

What do you think about this verse and how does evolution fit into creation?

Cheers, dont be shy. Lets get into it my dear

46AND2 said:

I agree with his assessment. Evolution has nothing to do with my atheism.

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Hey hey my dear

Looks like you skipped many questions and chose the ones you wanted to answer.

Im going to do something similar and answer only what i want and not what has been addressed.

Anyways we are getting closer to where i want to be - funny how that always happens.

What is your atheism built on? What has made you certain that there is no God?

Cheers ;p

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey my dear

Looks like you skipped many questions and chose the ones you wanted to answer.

Im going to do something similar and answer only what i want and not what has been addressed.

Anyways we are getting closer to where i want to be - funny how that always happens.

What is your atheism built on? What has made you certain that there is no God?

Cheers ;p

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You asked, literally, 2 dozen questions. Forgive me for not skipping work to appease your impatience. You'll get your answers when I have more time, as i have already intimated.

46AND2 said:

Forgive me for not skipping work to appease your impatience. You'll get your answers when I have more time, as i have already intimated.

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Hey hey

You are forgiven!

Well my dear, dont answer things until you can properly pay attention. Ill await for you to give me what you say you will.

Cheers

the iconoclast said:

Dont be shy, what is one example of incredulous creationist argument for the Christian God?

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Clarification: do you want arguments specifically about god's existence, or any creationist argument in general? Are you asking about YEC or just someone who believes god created?

What is one example of a credulous evolutionist argument against the Christian God?

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Speedwell answered how I would have.

Why does it matter what i believe in?

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I never said it did.

Why do you think it matters to me what you believe in?

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Because you called atheists elitists, so it clearly bugs you.

You hint it maybe a possibility the Christian God exists. No matter how ridiculously improbable this is to you, why is it still a small possibility?

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I have always been open-minded. I was once an evolution bashing, fundamental evangelical myself.

If it is not the reason i think it is, what have you got?

You dont believe me - obviously - or else you wouldnt have said there is maybe another explanation?

Give me what you got, show me how i could be wrong or what i should consider?

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Why? You'll just scoff and say, "nah, couldn't be that. It was real."

But whatever....people's minds can do amazing things when emotions are strong, and it has nothing to do with our mental health; it can happen to anyone. Why were the ladies laying hands and praying with you? Were you going through something particularly rough at the time? Some cause for emotions to be heightened?

Sometimes it doesn't even take much. You mentioned that you are Pentecostal. When I was in the Army, a friend of mine invited me to his Pentecostal church service. I was a conservative Baptist at the time, and believed that spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues, prophecy, and some others were no longer given in modern times. And honestly, the service was a bit uncomfortable for me. But the energy in there was palpable. And even though I didn't believe speaking in tongues was still a thing, I couldn't help but want to be a part of it. To feel what they were feeling. But you see, everyone there felt the same, had the desire to feel lifted. And it builds. And builds. And you start to convince yourself that something is happening. And the leaders know what to say and sing to egg it on...not in a deceptive way, because they are fully convinced themselves.

And before you ask, no, I did not speak in tongues at the service.

And that euphoria is not just for spiritual/religious things, either. One can become so emotionally invested in their favorite sports team that they become euphoric, PARTICULARLY when others are doing it with you. Or due to pride when your child is accomplishing something special.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Cause I know you aren't buying what I'm saying, and I've already told you that second hand testimonies are not very convincing.

I gave you my testimony on purpose - again. You gave me a hypothetical one so I give you a real one. I want to see how you react.

How do you feel about my claim?

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I feel that it is not the type of claim toward which I am incredulous.

Do you question my sincerity?

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No

Do you question my sanity?

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No.

Why would you disbelieve me?"

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I don't believe there was anything supernatural about my own past emotional states, why would I believe yours. ;-)

So because there are 1000s of belief system therefore Christianty cannot be true?

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You always do this. You know that is not what I meant, but you twist the meaning hoping for a "gotcha" moment. Try taking my comments at face value, and have a normal conversation, rather than a debate you are trying to win.

In some of my experiences with conversing with atheists. There is always a sense of uncertainty, nothing is ever 100% or certain to happen.

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Why is that a bad thing?

Do you fall into this category?

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Of course. I've learned that it is far less humiliating to admit you are wrong....and everyone is sometimes...when you keep in mind that, hey, I might be wrong, so let's see what I can learn.

How certain are you that the Christian God does not exist?

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That depends on which version you're talking about.

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey

What is the core of your atheism?

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A lot of things are involved, but at it's root, I'd say it's philosophical; more specifically, logic.

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey my dear

Looks like you skipped many questions and chose the ones you wanted to answer.

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Ironic, since you still have not answered the first questions I asked in this discussion, except to say that you don't care. Not to mention the fact that you never answered my last post in our last discussion as you said you would.

Im going to do something similar and answer only what i want and not what has been addressed.

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You always have. Why stop now?

Anyways we are getting closer to where i want to be - funny how that always happens.

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Yes, you are very adept at changing the question asked of you to a question you would rather answer instead. Pretty easy to get where you want when you do that.

What is your atheism built on?

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Philosophy/logic

What has made you certain that there is no God?

Cheers ;p

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I never said I was certain there is no god.

Kylie said:

Are you for real? People have been using passages of the Bible to show that the end of the world is near for centuries, and they've all been wrong. I see nothing to indicate that you aren't among them.

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All end times speculations, Biblical or otherwise, have two things in common:
100% wrong
100% of the time

Kylie said:

Links to Bible passages do not show me that your interpretations of those passages are correct.

So, try again. I'm not interested in what the passages say, I'm interested in seeing some source that shows that your interpretation of them is correct. You seem woefully incapable of providing this.

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OR, you are incapable of understanding the Spiritual things I tell you. What I show is that Scripture, science, history, genetics and math AGREE with Genesis. I know you don't believe in Scriptural Truth BUT when confirmed by every other discovery of mankind, it changes FAITH into FACT. Try to limit your criticism to the facts.

46AND2 said:

Um...what? I have only been speaking to you about one SPECIFIC instance.

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Don't you know that falsely accusing another is sinning? Want to limit your time accounting for your indiscretions on the day of judgment? Mat 12:36

Kylie said:

And I don't believe in God, something which you surely have figured out by now.

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Of course I know. I watch as you stick your head in the sand and tell me of your god hating thoughts. My desire is to get you to see that God's Truth AGREES with your precious thinking except with your view of the flawed ToE.

46AND2 said:

And...are you threatening me? Tsk tsk.

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I don't need to threaten someone who posts of their disagreement with God. The threat is within your own mouth.

Aman777 said:

My desire is to get you to see that God's Truth AGREES with your precious thinking

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This clearly isn't why you are here.

Kylie said:

Evolution can explain it. Superior intelligence is a beneficial trait and as such is favoured by natural selection.

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Hey, I've finally found someone who will reveal their faith in evolution. It must come from knowing HOW mindless Nature inserted God's superior intelligence into Apes changing them into Adam's descendants. (Humans) I'm all ears.....

Bungle_Bear said:

OK, I'll take that as an admission that it is possible you are wrong.

Next question - would you ever admit to being wrong on this forum?

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You have no idea that every Christian has already admitted that they were WRONG, which is why repentance is so important. Our great leader is the only person I know, who claims that he's a Christian but doesn't admit he asked for forgiveness.

pitabread said:

This clearly isn't why you are here.

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How many psychology degrees do you have?

Subduction Zone said:

No, that is a falsehood. Everybody and their aunts have refuted your beliefs. What is a bit irritating is that you refuse to learn any of the sciences even at a middle school level.

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Your mean the brain washing I suffered through in School? They fooled me for a while, while I was a small child, but I grew up. Want to try to get me to place my FAITH in the idea that i'm nothing but an evolved Ape? That I'm going to live for a few years and then die and rot just like any other animal? Forget it unless you can explain the procedure of placing the highest intelligence in the Universe, into Apes?

Subduction Zone said:

Sagan is trying to avoid a righteous judgment by claiming to be like me. I'm a converted Creationist, converted from a belief in evolution.

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And "belief" is your problem. You should have learned. Then you would know. Creationists only have belief and they make the error of thinking that is the plight of others as well.[/QUOTE]

The SAME applies to god denying Atheists, too.

Aman777 said:

How many psychology degrees do you have?

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Anyone can recognize that the discussion tactics you use are wholly ineffective at garnering any agreement with what you believe. Even your fellow creationists don't agree with what you post here.

If you were genuinely interested in trying to get people to agree with you, you'd be using a completely different approach.

Aman777 said:

I don't need to threaten someone who posts of their disagreement with God. The threat is within your own mouth.

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I'm not posting disagreement with god, I'm posting disagreement with you. You are most certainly not god.