Your Mission. Your Passion.

[GospelS]

I wish I could adopt all the homeless children in this world.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I wish I could adopt all the homeless children in this world.

Perhaps instead of all of them everywhere it could be one of them somewhere...

 

[tturt]

Since they say foster children are moved a lot, I had suggested that we offer photos with Santa including the date and name and address of our church. The idea was rejected because of privacy issues and getting the necessary approval.

 

[MyLifeForChrist]

Get people off-line/solated during this crisis and back to church (see my last twenty posts here). God will not be pleased with the lazy excuses being made at this moment and may he not (rightfully) harshly judge a whole bunch of us for simply sitting on our collective arses/giving up.

 

[GospelS]

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these”

 

[GospelS]

Perhaps instead of all of them everywhere it could be one of them somewhere...

Maybe one child from each continent. A perfect seven little gospels. My two fishes and five loaves.

 

[BradRodney]

I've been excited about some of the missions in Europe especially the ones bringing about the conversions of refugees, who then going back home to Syria, Iraq, North Africa, Turkey and Lebanon and bring their brethren into the church. One of my best friends from childhood in our church (in Florida) moved to Sweden and was involved in this, converted dozens of Syrians most of whom then went back and preached the Gospel back home, in some cases converted whole Syrian towns to the faith even when ISIL had been attacking them! This is amazing to me because it connects us to history 1,500 years ago. It really was almost that long ago that regions like Syria and North Africa were Christian as a whole, and now for the first time in all those centuries it's happening again. Not something we in the West could do ourselves due to all the cultural and social implications, but the refugees have no such restrictions as they're simply going back home to their native lands, and they can preach where they can't. Another great example of how our faith and our flock can convert even the most horrible adversities and setbacks into things that warm the heart.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Evangelizing and converting Protestants.

In general, I have a very difficult time respecting most international missions and missionaries.

 

[Dansiph]

Evangelizing and converting Protestants.

In general, I have a very difficult time respecting most international missions and missionaries.

Just out of interest, how do you go about converting a Protestant? I'm not saying it's everyone but I've seen some with a bad attitude. This is just my opinion but when I see a lot of Catholic discussion, it seems to emanate "we're the true church and if you can't see that it's your fault". Even to the point of someone using nearly those exact words.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, in fact I often have a bad attitude myself. I'm also not saying you have a bad attitude either.

I also have a question which will seem snarky but it's not meant to be. Can Protestants go to heaven according to Catholics?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Just out of interest, how do you go about converting a Protestant? I'm not saying it's everyone but I've seen some with a bad attitude. This is just my opinion but when I see a lot of Catholic discussion, it seems to emanate "we're the true church and if you can't see that it's your fault". Even to the point of someone using nearly those exact words.

There are good forms of evangelism and bad ones.

For me, it's whatever works. Study of history, compare/contrast Catholic doctrine to Protestant doctrine, posting memes, you name it. There are all types of reasons to convert so everybody will have different requirements.

Speaking of which, the declining numbers of religious affiliation in the US are a well known fact by now. This is a big reason why I usually don't support (financially or otherwise) most international missions. If Americans are so gung-ho about sharing the faith, good. Then they should share it with their local communities rather than go to places like Russia, which are relatively safe and already heavily Christian.

I also have a question which will seem snarky but it's not meant to be. Can Protestants go to heaven according to Catholics?

Catholics believe that everyone in Heaven is Catholic. They may or may not have been Catholic in life. But most assuredly, they will be Catholic in Heaven.

 

[Dansiph]

If Americans are so gung-ho about sharing the faith, good. Then they should share it with their local communities rather than go to places like Russia, which are relatively safe and already heavily Christian.

Thanks. I think that comes down to that they don't believe the majority of people called Christians in Russia are Christian. They want to save them. This is partly why I asked about if Protestants can go to heaven according to Catholic belief. As you know many Protestants do not believe Catholics can go to heaven. But, Catholics (I think?) believe non-Catholics can go to heaven. What I'm getting at is, wouldn't it be safer to be a Protestant?

The reason for all this is: I always hear "Presbyterians believe this!" OR, "Catholics believe that!" And when I actually look to confirm myself they don't even believe exactly how the person is stating they do. If that makes sense?

For example, I just watched a video by a channel called Ascension Presents to try and check something and he said we are not good enough to go to heaven. We go by the grace of God etc. I've heard all the time Catholics believe we have to be "good enough" to go to heaven. I am not saying Catholics are right but I am starting to see the need for me to study things myself. At least moreso than I was. I also just realised I'm on a complete tangent from the thread... sorry

 

[thecolorsblend]

Thanks. I think that comes down to that they don't believe the majority of people called Christians in Russia are Christian. They want to save them. This is partly why I asked about if Protestants can go to heaven according to Catholic belief. As you know many Protestants do not believe Catholics can go to heaven. But, Catholics (I think?) believe non-Catholics can go to heaven. What I'm getting at is, wouldn't it be safer to be a Protestant?

It might seem that way. But I don't think so. For one thing, as a Catholic, I'm eligible to receive the sacrament of Last Rites. So if I'm dying and a priest can get to me in time, I've got that extra benefit working in my favor.

Now, my Church teaches that there is such a thing as "invincible ignorance". It's possible that someone may not comprehend what the Church teaches for a variety of reasons. In such a case, there is the possibility that the person may go to Heaven anyway:

IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

Invincible ignorance of Catholic teaching is real. However, it is not guaranteed to allow a non-Catholic to go to Heaven. Honestly, we don't know. And we may never know. What the Church is teaching there is that there may be room for God's grace to work. It might be possible for a non-Catholic to go to Heaven.

But I think best practice is to be a member of the Catholic Church. There, the faithful can receive the sacraments and the fullness of Catholic teaching.

The reason for all this is: I always hear "Presbyterians believe this!" OR, "Catholics believe that!" And when I actually look to confirm myself they don't even believe exactly how the person is stating they do. If that makes sense?

It does. In such cases, I find it's best to provide an exact quote. If "Presbyterians believe this" then finding some type of authoritative source should be possible.

Now, having said that, Protestantism is rife with disagreement. Even members of the same communities might not believe the same things. To wit: to know one Southern Baptist is not necessarily to know all Southern Baptists. That's a big reason why claiming that all Presbyterians or Southern Baptists or Pentecostals or whatever believer X, Y or Z can be dicey. So that's a challenge that Catholic evangelists often run up against.

For example, I just watched a video by a channel called Ascension Presents to try and check something and he said we are not good enough to go to heaven. We go by the grace of God etc. I've heard all the time Catholics believe we have to be "good enough" to go to heaven. I am not saying Catholics are right but I am starting to see the need for me to study things myself. At least moreso than I was. I also just realised I'm on a complete tangent from the thread... sorry

Doesn't seem like anybody else is participating so I'm not worried about it. But if the direction of the conversation bothers the OP, we can do something about that.

As to the other, Catholics view the issue of salvation as a cooperative endeavor between man and God. God offers forgiveness and man accepts it (or rejects it). We play a role in our salvation from the standpoint that we choose to believe or not to believe, we attend Mass or we don't, we receive the Blessed Sacrament regularly or we don't, we pray regularly or we don't, etc.

To sola fide-believing evangelicals, I can see where Catholic belief can resemble "works-based" sumthin sumthin. My usual answer to that is "Believe is a verb. An action. A work." So realistically, Catholics and Protestants don't disagree that action on man's part is necessary for the salvific work to be complete. Rather, what we disagree over is simply a matter of degree.

 

[Dansiph]

It might seem that way. But I don't think so. For one thing, as a Catholic, I'm eligible to receive the sacrament of Last Rites. So if I'm dying and a priest can get to me in time, I've got that extra benefit working in my favor.

Now, my Church teaches that there is such a thing as "invincible ignorance". It's possible that someone may not comprehend what the Church teaches for a variety of reasons. In such a case, there is the possibility that the person may go to Heaven anyway:

Invincible ignorance of Catholic teaching is real. However, it is not guaranteed to allow a non-Catholic to go to Heaven. Honestly, we don't know. And we may never know. What the Church is teaching there is that there may be room for God's grace to work. It might be possible for a non-Catholic to go to Heaven.

But I think best practice is to be a member of the Catholic Church. There, the faithful can receive the sacraments and the fullness of Catholic teaching.

It does. In such cases, I find it's best to provide an exact quote. If "Presbyterians believe this" then finding some type of authoritative source should be possible.

Now, having said that, Protestantism is rife with disagreement. Even members of the same communities might not believe the same things. To wit: to know one Southern Baptist is not necessarily to know all Southern Baptists. That's a big reason why claiming that all Presbyterians or Southern Baptists or Pentecostals or whatever believer X, Y or Z can be dicey. So that's a challenge that Catholic evangelists often run up against.

Doesn't seem like anybody else is participating so I'm not worried about it. But if the direction of the conversation bothers the OP, we can do something about that.

As to the other, Catholics view the issue of salvation as a cooperative endeavor between man and God. God offers forgiveness and man accepts it (or rejects it). We play a role in our salvation from the standpoint that we choose to believe or not to believe, we attend Mass or we don't, we receive the Blessed Sacrament regularly or we don't, we pray regularly or we don't, etc.

To sola fide-believing evangelicals, I can see where Catholic belief can resemble "works-based" sumthin sumthin. My usual answer to that is "Believe is a verb. An action. A work." So realistically, Catholics and Protestants don't disagree that action on man's part is necessary for the salvific work to be complete. Rather, what we disagree over is simply a matter of degree.

So can invincible ignorance mean that say someone (and this is all hypothetical) says "there's something to this Catholicism" and then rejects it. They are in danger? According to Catholic beliefs?

To me the priority is going to heaven. David says in Psalm 27 it's the one thing he seeks:

Psa 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

I currently believe I am saved only by grace through faith in Jesus' payment for my sins. To summarise it anyway. However I've been in an IFB bubble for a while and recently realised many other denominations - for the most part - believe in salvation the same way as IFB churches. Non-denom, Presbyterians, Calvary Chapel to name some. In realising this I have also realised I need to at least hear things from the horse's mouth. There is a hang-up though. Looking to study Catholicism even out of interest specifically would not be seen favourably, nevermind Presbyterianism. Then again do I now seek to please man or God? As the Bible says.

 

[ChristServant]

It might seem that way. But I don't think so. For one thing, as a Catholic, I'm eligible to receive the sacrament of Last Rites. So if I'm dying and a priest can get to me in time, I've got that extra benefit working in my favor.

Now, my Church teaches that there is such a thing as "invincible ignorance". It's possible that someone may not comprehend what the Church teaches for a variety of reasons. In such a case, there is the possibility that the person may go to Heaven anyway:

Invincible ignorance of Catholic teaching is real. However, it is not guaranteed to allow a non-Catholic to go to Heaven. Honestly, we don't know. And we may never know. What the Church is teaching there is that there may be room for God's grace to work. It might be possible for a non-Catholic to go to Heaven.

But I think best practice is to be a member of the Catholic Church. There, the faithful can receive the sacraments and the fullness of Catholic teaching.

It does. In such cases, I find it's best to provide an exact quote. If "Presbyterians believe this" then finding some type of authoritative source should be possible.

Now, having said that, Protestantism is rife with disagreement. Even members of the same communities might not believe the same things. To wit: to know one Southern Baptist is not necessarily to know all Southern Baptists. That's a big reason why claiming that all Presbyterians or Southern Baptists or Pentecostals or whatever believer X, Y or Z can be dicey. So that's a challenge that Catholic evangelists often run up against.

Doesn't seem like anybody else is participating so I'm not worried about it. But if the direction of the conversation bothers the OP, we can do something about that.

As to the other, Catholics view the issue of salvation as a cooperative endeavor between man and God. God offers forgiveness and man accepts it (or rejects it). We play a role in our salvation from the standpoint that we choose to believe or not to believe, we attend Mass or we don't, we receive the Blessed Sacrament regularly or we don't, we pray regularly or we don't, etc.

To sola fide-believing evangelicals, I can see where Catholic belief can resemble "works-based" sumthin sumthin. My usual answer to that is "Believe is a verb. An action. A work." So realistically, Catholics and Protestants don't disagree that action on man's part is necessary for the salvific work to be complete. Rather, what we disagree over is simply a matter of degree.

Do Catholic priests still receive money from people as a good deed to help them get into heaven?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Do Catholic priests still receive money from people as a good deed to help them get into heaven?

Would you care to elaborate on that practice? Give specific examples and so forth?

 

[yellowMan]

To sola fide-believing evangelicals, I can see where Catholic belief can resemble "works-based" sumthin sumthin. My usual answer to that is "Believe is a verb. An action. A work." So realistically, Catholics and Protestants don't disagree that action on man's part is necessary for the salvific work to be complete. Rather, what we disagree over is simply a matter of degree.

Do you have any scripture references to backup your claim that "belief is a work" in the context of salvation/justification?

Paul doesn't seem to think it is. In fact he contrasts the two quite plainly:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Another example where Paul explicitly contrasts works vs belief as opposities as he tells us how Abraham was saved/justified:
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I love helping out with Kids ministries.

 

[Unqualified]

deleted