Your Interpretation of Scripture is NOT The Inerrant Word of God

[TheBear]

It is with great concern that I must make Myself known to you in order to correct you on your appaling "basic" theology.

The Bible was not written by Me. It was written by men, fallible men, at that, who tried their best to express their experience of Me in terms that could be understood to the people they were trying to express it to.

As such, there are parts of the Bible which are, to a reader in this day and age, allegorical, poetic, and mythological. This is according to My design. I never planned for people to take the Bible as literal then, let alone now. I had planned for people to understand that the Bible is historical, but not necessarily history. With a few exceptions (such as yourself), the plan has succeeded.

Please re-examine your own "basic theology" and discern how much of it is simple vanity -- the refusal of a fallible man to recognize other fallible men. The authors I originally chose for the Bible made this same mistake --- that's the price of Free Will -- but I sincerely hope you can learn from their errors, and mature in your faith beyond the mere pages of their Bible.

While you're at it, pay more attention to that "Nathan Poe" chap; he seems to know what he's talking about.

Warmest Personal Regards,

God.

G:np

That's awesome!

 

[Split Rock]

Dear Mr. AV1611VET;

It is with great concern that I must make Myself known to you in order to correct you on your appaling "basic" theology.

The Bible was not written by Me. It was written by men, fallible men, at that, who tried their best to express their experience of Me in terms that could be understood to the people they were trying to express it to.

As such, there are parts of the Bible which are, to a reader in this day and age, allegorical, poetic, and mythological. This is according to My design. I never planned for people to take the Bible as literal then, let alone now. I had planned for people to understand that the Bible is historical, but not necessarily history. With a few exceptions (such as yourself), the plan has succeeded.

Please re-examine your own "basic theology" and discern how much of it is simple vanity -- the refusal of a fallible man to recognize other fallible men. The authors I originally chose for the Bible made this same mistake --- that's the price of Free Will -- but I sincerely hope you can learn from their errors, and mature in your faith beyond the mere pages of their Bible.

While you're at it, pay more attention to that "Nathan Poe" chap; he seems to know what he's talking about.

Warmest Personal Regards,

God.

G:np

An excellent letter. How sad that you are not able to entertain the idea that maybe... just maybe.. you're interpretation of scripture is wrong... and not "God's Word."

 

[AV1611VET]

An excellent letter. How sad that you are not able to entertain the idea that maybe... just maybe.. you're interpretation of scripture is wrong... and not "God's Word."

You [guys] couldn't care less about 'my interpretation' of Scripture; as long as it doesn't interfere with the Big Bang and evolution --- as evidenced by your [plural] choice of respondees.

That's why you [guys] leave TEs alone, and go after the YECs and Embedded Agers.

In my opinion.

 

[Split Rock]

You [guys] couldn't care less about 'my interpretation' of Scripture; as long as it doesn't interfere with the Big Bang and evolution --- as evidenced by your [plural] choice of respondees.

That's why you [guys] leave TEs alone, and go after the YECs and Embedded Agers.

In my opinion.

LOL! The reason we "leave TEs alone" is because they do not claim inerrant divine revelation for their positions on nature. It really upsets you that we don't argue with Christians that are not creationists... doesn't it? Afterall, we agnostics and atheists are supposed to hate Christians because of who they are... right?

 

[MagusAlbertus]

At last someone who admits that their religion and their God exists only in their mind, if it's so obvious to us why isn't it obvious to others?

I did not get that form what he said at all.

and I do like the 'God put it in his heart' touch

I think he was trying to express a deeply moving personal experience in a biblically sound manner.

Afterall, we agnostics and atheists are supposed to hate Christians because of who they are... right?

I am 100% behind AV in his factual interpretation of scripture as being 100% true, divinely inspired, good for learning and rebuke and (from what I can tell) inerrant.

 

[dad]

I did not get that form what he said at all.
I think he was trying to express a deeply moving personal experience in a biblically sound manner.
I am 100% behind AV in his factual interpretation of scripture as being 100% true, divinely inspired, good for learning and rebuke and (from what I can tell) inerrant.

Me too.

 

[Alunyel]

The problem with that is, there's absolutely no evidence to support your claims that the Bible is 100% truth, yet there's evidence in abundance that it's not.

 

[dad]

Creationists here all have one thing in common… they use “The Inerrant Word of God” as their sword and shield. Why is the earth not billions of years old? Why is common descent wrong? Why is Big Bang cosmology wrong? Because God says so. How could the stories in Genesis possibly be actual history? Because God says so. God is infallible, and The Bible is His Word. Man is fallible and God is not. If one accepts this argument at face value, it is hard to argue against.. isn’t it? But is this argument legitimate? No. Let’s look at why.

Preposterous. Why common descent and the big bang are wrong, etc, is not because of the word of God. The word of God simply clues us in that you are dead wrong. And if you were not, you could prove it. Of course you can't.

Let us assume for the sake of argument, that the Bible is correct, when it claims its authors were inspired by God. Every word in The Bible was written by fallible human men. Not God. Not Jesus. Men. Even if inspired by God, the writing was carried out by Men. Many creationists believe that God somehow ensured that all of the fallible writers of the books chosen by fallible men to become canon were absolutely inerrant, or “God Breathed.” Some call this “Verbal Plenary Inspiration.” Unfortunately, no where in scripture is this type of inspiration claimed. It is simply an opinion of many creationists.

The whole idea of God speaking to man, and getting a record to us is that it is inspired. Holy men of God did speak as led by God, of course. No way round it.

As if that was not detrimental enough for the inerrancy case, it gets worse. No where in scripture does it specifically say how old the earth or universe is, and no where does it say species or “kinds” do not change over time.

It gives that lineage to within a small margin of interpretation. Do you doubt Adam lived 930 years or whatever? The changes in kids we can see, that came after they got off the ark. The bible also mentions changes to come in kinds, like lion eating straw...

Just as it does not say anything about the earth orbiting the sun,

The universe changes that were after effects of putting man's universe into a temporary state, are too numerous to list. Neither are they important, as they will all be changed again. What is important is that God sent His son to save us from ourselves, and death forever. Whether His living here on earth will mean the sun starts to revolve around the earth, we don't know. Just as whethher it used to in anotther state is unknown..

scripture says nothing about evolution.

Or the tooth fairy! So??? It does mention in the latter days men will worship the creation more than the creator.

So, where does this Divine pronouncement against an deep time and evolution come from? Interpretation. Fallible creationists interpret the Bible using their own assumptions, opinions, prejudices and agendas to come to their own conclusion about what scripture implies about subjects it does not specifically refer to.

No more than interpreting Adam lived 930 years.

Worse, they interpret scripture as if it was written for 21st century Americans, instead of Bronze Age Hebrew goat-herders. They then call this interpretation “God’s Inerrant Word.” It is not. It is, in the end, their opinion, based on their own fallible interpretation of scripture.

Not all ancients were goat herders. Really. The wise men, for example. Or Daniel. Many things were written for the latter times, not just in the US, but Israel, and etc.

Creationists are loathe to admit that what they claim as “God’s Word,” or “The Bible” is really nothing more than an opinion based on their interpretation of scripture.

Not at all. The years from Adam till Solomon are pretty well mapped out. Opinion comes into play only in a minor way, to the tune of max hundreds of years.

In the end, creationists have no true divine legitimacy for their claims, even if one assumes that The Bible was divinely inspired.

Yes, they do,, if we are talking the garden, the flood, or Babel, or etc. Also the timeframes, within a small margin of possible interpretation. That is why it is such a raging debate.

Creation, and creation week is sacrosanct, untouchable, immutable, absolute, written in stone, divine, confirmed in the mouth of New Testament witnesses, impervious to science, and certain.

 

[MagusAlbertus]

The problem with that is, there's absolutely no evidence to support your claims that the Bible is 100% truth, yet there's evidence in abundance that it's not.

Let me ask you, if you imagine God... pretend for a moment there is a God as fitting for the person of biblical Christ...

Would you love him? why?

I am 100% open to hearing about your dis-proof of the bible, in years of examining this I have never found on example of contradiction... a new thread maybe?

 

[Alunyel]

Let me ask you, if you imagine God... pretend for a moment there is a God as fitting for the person of biblical Christ...

Would you love him? why?

I am 100% open to hearing about your dis-proof of the bible, in years of examining this I have never found on example of contradiction... a new thread maybe?

Imagining for a moment that the Biblical God does exist, and he's done everything he's done in the Bible, no. I don't think I could "love" anyone who'd willingly annihilate virtually all life on Earth, save for the few he deems worth saving. Amongst other things. If the Bible's anything to go by, 'specially the OT, then God's actions are cruel and malevolent.

As for evidence against the 100% accuracy of the Bible, where would you like me to begin?

I'd start at well.. the start, Genesis, but I'd only be repeating myself. Have a browse through the Biblical Literalism and the Story of Creation thread, and read what I wrote about the formation of stars and planets, in comparison to what Genesis says. Hopefully you'll get a bit of a laugh out of AV's "Scrabble tile" analysis of why God made everything in the wrong order.

 

[AV1611VET]

You [guys] couldn't care less about 'my interpretation' of Scripture; as long as it doesn't interfere with the Big Bang and evolution --- as evidenced by your [plural] choice of respondees.

That's why you [guys] leave TEs alone, and go after the YECs and Embedded Agers.

In my opinion.

LOL! The reason we "leave TEs alone" is because they do not claim inerrant divine revelation for their positions on nature.

Isn't that what I just said?

 

[Naraoia]

So where do your thoughts and beliefs exist consol? On the evidence so far it seems to be your rear-end.

*falls off chair*

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think I could "love" anyone who'd willingly annihilate virtually all life on Earth, save for the few he deems worth saving.

Interesting word choice there, Al.

In the three years I've been here, I've had several ask why God didn't just zap these people out of existence painlessly and start over.

The thing is, in God's loving foresight, He didn't do it that way so as to give them time to repent and get saved.

As the saying goes, 'There's no atheists in foxholes', and I believe that most (if not all) of those who drowned repented and went to Heaven.

So even though they left God no choice but to destroy them, God still ended up adopting them as His children.

 

[Naraoia]

I don't often make this kind of comment, but... really? A forced apology is enough to go to heaven? It's like believing a confession of love made at gunpoint.

I can't help but wonder how long it would've taken for these people to forget their fear and relapse into their sinful ways if God let them live instead of sending them to heaven. Maybe that's just me being cynical about people.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't often make this kind of comment, but... really?

Yes, really.

A forced apology is enough to go to heaven? It's like believing a confession of love made at gunpoint.

Ask the thief on the cross who got saved.

We call them "deathbed conversions".

(And they're not "forced" --- as the other thief on the cross testifies.)

 

[Naraoia]

Yes, really. Ask the thief on the cross who got saved.

We call them "deathbed conversions".

(And they're not "forced" --- as the other thief on the cross testifies.)

Sorry, if you are threatened, it is forced, regardless of the fact that some people refuse to repent.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, if you are threatened, it is forced, regardless of the fact that some people refuse to repent.

It may be 'forced' --- but the only thing you're being 'forced' to do is make a decision.

Many people slip into eternity thinking they have plenty of time to 'decide for God later'.

Believe me --- God, even in His judgment, was being merciful.

 

[Naraoia]

A decision made in fear is... well. Like I said, confession of love at gunpoint. People do a lot of things they wouldn't normally do for the simple selfish reason of self-preservation. I just see nothing salvation-worthy about that, but then I'm quite obviously not God

 

[AV1611VET]

A decision made in fear is... well. Like I said, confession of love at gunpoint.

I somehow can't picture those people drowning while screaming, "I love you".

Drowning while screaming, "I'm sorry! Save me!" is another story.

People do a lot of things they wouldn't normally do for the simple selfish reason of self-preservation.

God knew their hearts.

I just see nothing salvation-worthy about that, but then I'm quite obviously not God

Nice conclusion.

 

[atomweaver]

Yes, really. Ask the thief on the cross who got saved.

We call them "deathbed conversions".

Meh. People say Stupid Things when they are dying or in severe pain. If you feel free to believe that a lifetime of atheism can be erased by a few choice words in the last few minutes of life, then you must also accept that a lifetime of devotion to God by a long-time Christian can be erased by renouncing God from the deathbed... This notion speaks to a very fickle God; one who measures a person by whatever distressed thoughts/words are blurted out under duress of fear and pain;

"welcome to heaven, lifelong atheist! You said the magic words in the last five seconds, and are now a lucky winner!!!! Grab a toga and a cloud of your choice"

"Sorry dedicated Christian, those eighty years of devout faith are meaningless... you cursed and renouced me in the last minute of your life. No, it doesn't matter that the pain of the cancer raging through your body incited the outburst... Its off to the Pit of Fire with you!"


IMNSHO, it would be far more just to take the measure of a person by what they stood for and accomplished in the majority of their lives.

(And they're not "forced" --- as the other thief on the cross testifies.)

No, not "forced", they're merely people acting like people, when faced with overwhelming pain, fear, and/or suffering.