Your epistemology

[Clizby WampusCat]

It's a choice.

Belief is not a choice. Can you believe the earth has three moons? We are convinced by the evidence or we are not.

And we all bear the consequences of our choices.

And what are the consequences of me not believing God exists?

 

[public hermit]

in regards to faith?

Mine has definitely changed over time. When I first came to faith, I was very dogmatic and certain even though I had many questions. Over the years as I have pursued those questions I have realized that my faith is not so much belief in a set of truth claims but more of a trust in the God whose essence is beyond me and yet has been revealed in various ways. Even though I believe basic tenets of Christianity, faith has become more a way of going forward trusting that which is good and beautiful and true will always be. I don't think God is all that much concerned with right belief but with a right or good way of being. We are created to become, not just believe. And, I trust God will not fail in fulfilling the divine intention in creating. That kind if faith is very freeing, to me. To trust God's love and goodness is the best thing that ever happens to me on any given day, which makes me very grateful.

 

[Clare73]

I agree the bible says this. This is just proof that this verse is not true. I am not wicked and I do not believe in God. I believe you when you say you do believe in God, you believe a book over what I say.

People are not good or bad, people do good and bad things. Please don't call me wicked, I do good and bad things, wicked is not who I am.

I don't call you anything, I quote Scripture.
You get to decide if you believe it or not. . .and you don't.
I get that.

 

[Clare73]

Belief is not a choice. Can you believe the earth has three moons?
We are convinced by the evidence or we are not.

Agreed. . .

Do you really want the truth?
Are you willing to have it revealed to you on the terms that you will receive and accept if it is revealed to you?

(Actually, that is a no-brainer, for when it is revealed to you, there will be absolutely no doubt about its veracity.)

If so, you might throw those facts out there for the Author of the Universe, if he exists.
It's the willingness to receive if shown that matters.

And what are the consequences of me not believing God exists?

First of all, there are no lasting consequences now.

According to the NT Scriptures, the consequences occur at death in the determination of one's eternal destiny, either with God in eternal love and joy, or apart from God with terrifying evil.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I don't call you anything, I quote Scripture.
You get to decide if you believe it or not. . .and you don't.
I get that.

Yet you believe what scripture says about me, correct? Own your beliefs.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Agreed. . .

Do you really want the truth?
Are you willing to have it revealed to you on the terms that you will receive and accept if it is revealed to you?

(Actually, that is a no-brainer, for when it is revealed to you, there will be absolutely no doubt about its veracity.)

If so, you might throw those facts out there for the Author of the Universe, if he exists.
It's the willingness to receive if shown that matters.

I was a Christian for 18 years. When I was losing my faith i asked many times for God to reveal himself to me as he has to others. Well I am an atheist. He never did. I am willing to know if God exists or not. I want to know what is true. The silence is deafening so to speak.

First of all, there are no lasting consequences now.

According to the NT Scriptures, the consequences occur at death in the determination of one's eternal destiny, either with God in eternal love and joy, or apart from God with terrifying evil.

Yet you believe God is good? If God wants me to know He exists then He can do that. He has all the power in this situation. God knows that I want to know if He exists, what more can I do?

 

[Clare73]

Yet you believe what scripture says about me, correct? Own your beliefs.

Willingly. . .

I believe all mankind is born in sin and condemned (Romans 5:18) until they trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice (Romans 3:25); i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ by faith, so that God's Holy Spirit may indwell them without defiling the pure and holy presence of God in his fellowship with them in that Spirit.

 

[Clare73]

I was a Christian for 18 years. When I was losing my faith i asked many times for God to reveal himself to me as he has to others. Well I am an atheist. He never did. I am willing to know if God exists or not. I want to know what is true. The silence is deafening so to speak.

Yet you believe God is good? If God wants me to know He exists then He can do that. He has all the power in this situation. God knows that I want to know if He exists, what more can I do?

Well, actually there is.

He doesn't reveal himself simply to satisfy our curiosity, just for the sake of our knowledge, so that we can evaluate and judge it.

He reveals himself to those who go in willing to accept that he exists, that he is God--supreme and authoritative, and willing to submit to him because he is God, if he reveals to us that he is God.

 

[childeye 2]

Hello.
I heard many times on this forum and elsewhere, that it doesn’t matter what you like to believe or want God to be like, it’s objective truth that matters.

What about semantics that occur in our psycholinguistics? (If we don't know anything, how could we know that? What if we know everything and don't know it?)... So, consider if I say, "Objectively speaking it matters what we like to believe and want God to be like because it makes us who we are". It defines the basic dichotomies we reason upon such as right/wrong, good/bad, true/false, ignorance/knowledge.

Christianity is claiming that God sent us a True Image of God to believe in (The term God is axiomatic). If the term god/gods/godesses implies myth or superstition, then God according to that terminology is an atheist. Hence we're conflating God with images of god, and likewise conflating God with religion. Which is not sound reasoning, because subjectively I inevitably create god in my own image, even though I am corruptible. And this is vanity.

Any reasoning based on something false ends in a contradiction. This manifests in hypocrisy, being against your own self. Because if whatever made me is not trustworthy, then neither am I.

Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. The first lie ever invented only came into existence through subverting and undermining the sentiments behind these commandments, as do probably all lies, (apart from something like lying to Nazi's to protect a Jew).

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Willingly. . .

I believe all mankind is born in sin and condemned (Romans 5:18) until they trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice (Romans 3:25); i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ by faith, so that God's Holy Spirit may indwell them without defiling the pure and holy presence of God in his fellowship with them in that Spirit.

So do you believe I am wicked?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Well, actually there is.

He doesn't reveal himself simply to satisfy our curiosity, just for the sake of our knowledge, so that we can evaluate and judge it.

He reveals himself to those who go in willing to accept that he exists, that he is God--supreme and authoritative, and willing to submit to him because he is God, if he reveals to us that he is God.

I did this. He never showed up.
You can believe me or the Bible. Either way I know Romans 1:20 is false through my experience.

 

[Clare73]

So do you believe I am wicked?

This is important to you, isn't it?

Only in the sense presented below.
Actually, I like you very much--you are sincere, and I have every hope that God will reveal himself to you just as he did to me (took 15 years), who likewise could not make myself believe what I did not really believe.
Since I couldn't resolve the problem, I decided to just shelve it and get on with life. . .however, shelving it did not mean rejecting it, but remaining open to be convinced. . .which happened some 15 years later, when I really wasn't even looking for it.
And I will pray that God bless you with that same wonderful event.

We all have a sinful nature, not just unbelievers.

And so: John Gill from his commentary on the understanding of Ephesians 2:3, "by nature children of wrath as others"

they were such "by nature"; really, and not in opinion, and by and from their first birth: so a Jewish commentator (s) on these words, "thy first father hath sinned", Isaiah 43:27 has this note;"how canst thou say thou hast not sinned? and behold thy first father hath sinned, and he is the first man, for man , "is naturally in sin";''or by nature a sinner, or sin is naturally impressed in him; and hence being by nature a sinner, he is by nature deserving of the wrath of God, as were the persons spoken of:even as others; as the rest of the world, Jews as well as Gentiles; and Gentiles are especially designed, in distinction from the Jews,

 

[Clare73]

I did this. He never showed up.
You can believe me or the Bible. Either way
I know Romans 1:20 is false through my experience.

Please don't let yourself be tangled up in offense and resistance. . .don't let yourself become resentful because of hurt. . .that will only delay the gift.
You haven't been rejected. . .God just has "some tweaking" yet to do.

So where did matter come from?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

This is important to you, isn't it?

Only in the sense presented below.
Actually, I like you very much--you are sincere, and I have every hope that God will reveal himself to you just as he did to me (took 15 years), who likewise could not make myself believe what I did not really believe.
Since I couldn't resolve the problem, I decided to just shelve it and get on with life. . .however, shelving it did not mean rejecting it, but remaining open to be convinced. . .which happened some 15 years later, when I really wasn't even looking for it.
And I will pray that God bless you with that same wonderful event.

We all have a sinful nature, not just unbelievers.

And so: John Gill from his commentary on the understanding of Ephesians 2:3, "by nature children of wrath as others"

they were such "by nature"; really, and not in opinion, and by and from their first birth: so a Jewish commentator (s) on these words, "thy first father hath sinned", Isaiah 43:27 has this note;"how canst thou say thou hast not sinned? and behold thy first father hath sinned, and he is the first man, for man , "is naturally in sin";''or by nature a sinner, or sin is naturally impressed in him; and hence being by nature a sinner, he is by nature deserving of the wrath of God, as were the persons spoken of:even as others; as the rest of the world, Jews as well as Gentiles; and Gentiles are especially designed, in distinction from the Jews,

I was a believer for 18 years. I have done all I can to communicate with god. He never responded. All I can do now is wait and see if god wants to communicate with me.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Please don't let yourself be tangled up in offense and resistance. . .don't let yourself become resentful because of hurt. . .that will only delay the gift.
You haven't been rejected. . .God just has "some tweaking" yet to do.

I never said I was rejected by god. I am open to knowing the truth of His existence or not. It is in his court. He has all the power.

So where did matter come from?

Matter was formed through the big expansion of the universe. I don't really think that is what you are asking though. Why is there something rather than nothing? I don't know. The singularity is just a name for "we don't know" what was there before the expansion. Our physics breaks down at that point.

 

[Clare73]

I was a believer for 18 years. I have done all I can to communicate with god. He never responded. All I can do now is wait and see if god wants to communicate with me.

Yes, and don't worry about it.
It will be when the time is right for you.

 

[Clare73]

I never said I was rejected by god. I am open to knowing the truth of His existence or not. It is in his court. He has all the power.

Matter was formed through the big expansion of the universe. I don't really think that is what you are asking though. Why is there something rather than nothing? I don't know. The singularity is just a name for "we don't know" what was there before the expansion. Our physics breaks down at that point.

I would be asking where does energy come from.

And it matters not. Just a throw-away question.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes, and don't worry about it.
It will be when the time is right for you.

I think this answer makes you feel better in your faith. That there must be something wrong with me so that is the reason god wont communicate with me. If god exists and wants me to know he does exist then he can do that. If he wants to play petty games with me then that is on him not me. I want to know if god exists. How much more ready do I need to be?

 

[Clare73]

I think this answer makes you feel better in your faith. That there must be something wrong with me so that is the reason god wont communicate with me. If god exists and wants me to know he does exist then he can do that. If he wants to play petty games with me then that is on him not me. I want to know if god exists. How much more ready do I need to be?

Talk about "look a gift horse in the mouth," are you nuts, friend?
I was a believer for 25 years, then not for 15 years, then he revealed himself to me.

Maybe you need to get over your self-centered self-pity and projection of ulterior motives onto others before you are ready to even receive his revelation. . .you've disappointed me.

Maybe you need to approach it as if he does exist; i.e., trusting that if he does in fact exist, as God he is doing what is best for you.
Your thinking this is not a possibility with him is revealing.
What other choice do you have?
This is sure better than your current course of self-focus.

 

[James_Lai]

Talk about "look a gift horse in the mouth," are you nuts, friend?
I was a believer for 25 years, then not a believer for 15 years, then he revealed himself to me.

Maybe you need to get over your self-centered self-pity and projection of ulterior motives onto others before you are ready to even receive his revelation. . .you've disappointed me.

Maybe you need to approach it as if he does exist; i.e., trusting that if he does in fact exist, he is doing what is best for you.
That you would think that is not a possibility with anyone is revealing.
What other choice do you have?
This is sure better than your current course of self-focus.

There is zero proof and zero evidence a God Jehova or Allah or Lord Rama exist. There are billions of believers in them all, though.

I don’t believe in any of them.

To blame a person in inability to believe is very unfair. Because one believes only when they wish to believe or are forced to believe.