you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[Montalban]

here is a link to the text of our usual Liturgy, http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

and you can here a good sample of our music at www.ancientfaithradio.com
our music contains our theology. many contemporary Christian music is just love songs to Jesus -- not much substance. worship music should have substance, and be reverential.

Indeed, the songs I hear from some Protestants is all about Protestants feeling good! In fact they continually change their practices to make the church 'relevant' to the latest whims of people. It's church with man at the centre

 

[jckstraw72]

Fr. Michael Dahulich said that a Catholic bishop said to him that we are the only ones who have retained God-centered worship, bc with Vatican II they turned their altars around and made the service a dialogue btwn the priest and the people, rather than the people and God.

 

[Montalban]

we worship the true God, in the manner ordained by God to Moses, which is a copy and shadow of the Heavenly worship (Hebrews 8)

I don't get the Protestant objection here. They say it doesn't matter what we do BUT we shouldn't say one prayer three times a day!

Maybe it's "The only rule is that there are no rules" ????

 

[Montalban]

Fr. Michael Dahulich said that a Catholic bishop said to him that we are the only ones who have retained God-centered worship, bc with Vatican II they turned their altars around and made the service a dialogue btwn the priest and the people, rather than the people and God.

I remember as it was still filtering its way through to my church - which was St Josephs Enfield (in Sydney) in the 1970s. Even as a boy of 10, or 11 I noticed the change from hyms to songs like "Let it Be" and others like that; "Day by Day" (from the musical "Godspell")

There was a church at Concord that had a Mass that went for 1hr 10, but St Josephs was over in 45mins so my family preferred the quicker service!

 

[E.C.]

From the Apostles. You asked. I answered. The problem is you're expecting some document, but then you accuse us of legalism! ROFL!

Which we could more than provide.

like a mob of crazies?

how any EO could DARE be offended that someone wouldn't like their style of worship is beyond me, with THIS hypocritical judgemental bull.

Forgive me, my habit of taking the extremes from the spectrum kicked in and I was reminded of Jesus Camp.

Fr. Michael Dahulich said that a Catholic bishop said to him that we are the only ones who have retained God-centered worship, bc with Vatican II they turned their altars around and made the service a dialogue btwn the priest and the people, rather than the people and God.

Back in my Tiber days, I would go to the Protestant embassy once in a great while (had some friends).

The only difference? The Tiber had a regular Communion.

 

[christianmomof3]

Indeed, the songs I hear from some Protestants is all about Protestants feeling good! In fact they continually change their practices to make the church 'relevant' to the latest whims of people. It's church with man at the centre

well, at least you realize that is only some Protestants.
it is not true of all non-Orthodox, and non RCC Christians.
Here are some of the songs that we sing in our church meetings.
http://www.hymns.net/lyrics/index.htm
here is one i like a lot:

A Flowing River and a Tree
Hymns, #509


1. A flowing river and a tree,
Eden’s outstanding features are,
Man to supply with food and drink
That he may live fore’er.

Chorus:
God is in Christ to be my supply,
God as the Spirit nourisheth me;
If upon Christ in spirit I feed,
Filled with His life I’ll be.

2. The tree the glorious Christ does show,
As living food to man supplied,
That he God’s riches may enjoy,
Thus to be satisfied.

3. The river does the Spirit show,
Coming man’s spirit to supply,
That with God’s riches he be filled,
Holy to be thereby.

4. The Christ of glory is my life,
He as the Spirit lives in mine,
That I with God be fully blent
And in His image shine.

5. I would exalt this glorious Christ,
Ever the Spirit I’d obey,
Making His glory fully known,
Filled with His grace for aye.

 

[Montalban]

Anyone do "By the Rivers of Babylon"?

 

[jckstraw72]

old Protestant hymns are pretty awesome, but contemporary music is bleh

 

[E.C.]

old Protestant hymns are pretty awesome, but contemporary music is bleh

I think that one of my favorite "Protestant-esque" songs in the RC parish was "Morning Has Broken" as made famous by Cat Stevens!

 

[jckstraw72]

like the first morning! great song

 

[holo]

Indeed, the songs I hear from some Protestants is all about Protestants feeling good! In fact they continually change their practices to make the church 'relevant' to the latest whims of people. It's church with man at the centre

That's not a bad idea, though. Look what Paul did in Athens - he quoted pagan philosphers for truth! He'd go FAR if he thought he might win a few for the gospel. I don't know any christians who would do that today. They won't even change their meeting place, their songs or their way of talking...

 

[jckstraw72]

That's not a bad idea, though. Look what Paul did in Athens - he quoted pagan philosphers for truth! He'd go FAR if he thought he might win a few for the gospel. I don't know any christians who would do that today. They won't even change their meeting place, their songs or their way of talking...

what Paul did has nothing to do with man-centered worship ...

 

[holo]

Fr. Michael Dahulich said that a Catholic bishop said to him that we are the only ones who have retained God-centered worship, bc with Vatican II they turned their altars around and made the service a dialogue btwn the priest and the people, rather than the people and God.

A small step toward believing the bible when it says that we are ALL priests...

I hope that trend will continue, and that churches will begin reflecting the gospel rather than judaism. For example, this whole thing with having a "holy of holies" in church, where only the priests are allowed to go. That symbolises something quite different than the gospel...

 

[E.C.]

Indeed, the songs I hear from some Protestants is all about Protestants feeling good! In fact they continually change their practices to make the church 'relevant' to the latest whims of people. It's church with man at the centre

That is precisely the reason why the public does not decide foreign affairs. Public opinion is too volatile. Thus, we trust the people we vote into Congress to make the correct decisions.

 

[holo]

old Protestant hymns are pretty awesome, but contemporary music is bleh

I totally agree. You just can't compete with songs like "Rock of Ages".

 

[jckstraw72]

in our Church everyone, including the clergy faces to the east and prays to God, rather than the pastor just speaking to the congregation. our service is focused on giving worship to God, not entertaining ourselves.

 

[sunlover1]

here is a link to the text of our usual Liturgy, http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

I just want to know what 'liturgy' means.
That's all.

and you can here a good sample of our music at www.ancientfaithradio.com
our music contains our theology.

But who's to decide what is 'acceptable'
asfa music goes?
Why is some 'acceptable' and some not?
What elements make it acceptable?

many contemporary Christian music is just love songs to Jesus -- not much substance.

Love songs to Jesus..
NOT much substance?
yikes.

If someone sang me a love song,
<---- me listening
I'd DEFINITELY show up to listen.

worship music should have substance, and be reverential

So how can you determine what has 'substance'
and what (to God) is reverent?

 

[holo]

what Paul did has nothing to do with man-centered worship ...

Not man-centered worship, but he did focus on man. The man who needed to hear the gospel He was willing to forsake a whole lot of tradition for that goal. So it seems quite ironic that so many churches today, most notably the catholics and orthodox, are claiming to do exactly what the apostles did, when they are in fact doing the opposite. Paul was one who would NOTlet tradition determine how and why he did things. Most of his conflicts were with traditionalists in one form or another.

 

[jckstraw72]

So how can you determine what has 'substance'
and what (to God) is reverent?

i dont think its too hard to tell.

yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord.
yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord.
yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord, Amen ... does not have substance if you ask me.

and when i say love songs i mean like "Jesus I am so in love with you" -- its like He's our girlfriend or something! I love Jesus, im not IN love with Jesus. its all so feminized (interesting sidenote: Orthodoxy is the only Church that isnt losing male membership)

 

[holo]

That is precisely the reason why the public does not decide foreign affairs. Public opinion is too volatile. Thus, we trust the people we vote into Congress to make the correct decisions.

Yep, and that's how Congress gets the power to go to war on pretty thin grounds and against most people's opinion... personally I don't put any more trust in a church leader than in a politician.