you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[Rdr Iakovos]

Really? What do you call yourself?

I call myself Scott

And: why is that you have the Rudder (or what is Rdr) in front of your name?

Thanks for asking. The Rdr is short for reader. By the grace of God I was tonsured Reader. But this is not germaine to our topic, and is more fodder for you to denigrate things you do not understand. Let's stay on topic.

 

[holdon]

The Holy Spirit taught us how to worship, via the Apostles. To not worship as they instructed and to worship like a mob of crazies, is to spit in their faces.

What did they (these Apostles) precisely instruct then?

 

[Montalban]

What did they (these Apostles) precisely instruct then?

Go to church this Pascha and experience it for yourself!

 

[holdon]

I call myself Scott


Thanks for asking. The Rdr is short for reader. By the grace of God I was tonsured Reader. But this is not germaine to our topic, and is more fodder for you to denigrate things you do not understand. Let's stay on topic.

Hi Scott. Sorry, I always transliterated into rudder. I don't know why.

Now, I have to look up tonsured. I don't know what a "shaved reader" looks like.

 

[E.C.]

What did they (these Apostles) precisely instruct then?

What Montalban\/ said.

Go to church this Pascha and experience it for yourself!

 

[Rick Otto]

Absolutely.
Follow me as I follow Christ.

Forgive me for being a jaded cynic, brother.
In which direction shall we embark? Where doth He Lead thee?
BTW, just to calm my wife a bit, what kinda bona fides are ya sportin'? Not of course, that I would challenge your citizenship or loyalty, but references can sometimes help.

Personal anecdotes are acceptable.

I don't just mean to be a wise guy.
I just don't recieve the same anointing from sacramental observance. I used to practice it and was as fervant as circumstances could allow, but I never got the "fullness of truth" sense of fullfillment that was being promised, and it was in part because try as I might, I could not buy into transubstantiation at all. It presented itself as the heigth of insult added to the accumulated injuries of the those who shepparded me. There were some outstanding individuals who redeemed the situation from its circumstance of course,... & that is my point - that Christianity, the border of The Kingdom, is defined in interpersonal interactions between individuals, not along staked out territory for we walk by faith, not by sight.

& that's why I prefer a personal anecdote.

 

[holdon]

Go to church this Pascha and experience it for yourself!

No, I want to know where you're getting it from whatever you're getting.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

You said that you do.

No, I didn't. Where is it in the bible? Maybe we can learn from it! ???

Acts 13:2

Who is talking about a "cacophony"???

I pointed out yours.

 

[Montalban]

No, I want to know where you're getting it from whatever you're getting.

From the Apostles. You asked. I answered. The problem is you're expecting some document, but then you accuse us of legalism! ROFL!

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Forgive me for being a jaded cynic, brother.
In which direction shall we embark? Where doth He Lead thee?
BTW, just to calm my wife a bit, what kinda bona fides are ya sportin'? Not of course, that I would challenge your citizenship or loyalty, but references can sometimes help.

Personal anecdotes are acceptable.

Another time bro, I share the personal other places than the public.

 

[jckstraw72]

If all that one does is read scripts, that is not living and active or in and of Christ.

this is a faulty assumption. it doesnt have to be my words for it to mean something to me. and anyways, we DO say our own prayers, and super anyways, the apex of worship is receiving the Eucharist.

 

[Montalban]

No, I said "mixed up" with. Read better.

then if you don't believe it contradicts the Bible you just lost your own objection!

Sure. But who in their right mind would say write a book with the title: "The Lord's teaching to the nations through the twelve apostles".

Anyone who compiles what they taught. I've a Catholic Catechism called "The Teaching of Christ".

The Lord's teaching??? You really must learn to read better. Did I question the fast? No. But call those hypocrites who happen to fast on the wrong days, that is the problem: legalism on the face of it. We have absolutely no instruction as to which days to fast on. ??? It contradicts Scripture in prescribing:
certain days of fasting
a certain fast before one should be baptized
certain things to do in order to be on the "right way" (one of the two) (thus teaches salvation through works).

Jesus fasted according to Jewish laws. Or, are you saying that before Passover he had a bacon sausage?

the Lord's prayer should be recited thrice a day (where did the Lord say that?)

Actually we should pray as much as we breathe - St. Maximos (I believe).

Your problem is you're assuming that the Bible must say it all - then you accuse us of being legalistic! You can't make up your mind. The Bible itself says it doesn't contain all that Jesus said and did (see last verse, last chapter, John's gospel)

it lists the ten and other commandments and concludes like in the OT: do this and you shallt live. Can it be any clearer than that? Paul wrote: by works of law, no one shall be justified.

By OT law, yes. We're liberated from that. Jesus instituted new commandments.

I am frankly surprised that Christians wouldn't see this humongous difference. There is just too much in the whole piece to comment upon. Here is some more:

It speaks of "may Thy Church be gathered into your kingdom". ??? How is that even possible? And "gathered from the four winds"????
And on the coming of the Lord: "then shall the signs of the truth appear". How different when Jesus spoke:
"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven"

It is Judaistic in nature: mentions laws to follow for life; David and the four winds; gathering into the Kingdom; etc. etc..

Well your objection's based on a flawed understanding of the place of the Bible, followed by your opinion that there's 'loads of contradictions' in the Didache.

PS

The OT talks of the four corners of the earth.

 

[jckstraw72]

I guess it's a lost cause with you guys. You're so hung up on your religion, that "spirit and truth" don't matter anymore??? It seems you're still trying to climb the mountain to reach to heaven.

umm we simply do what we've been given. we dont try to come up with new, fancy styles of worship and we don't try to come up with our own snazzy prayers all the time. we're content to do the same as has always been done. WE aren't the ones who are trying to make something pleasing to God. Its no secret what pleases Him, so we do it -- we dont try to invent new things and hope He likes them.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Than the Apostles mean nothing.


We worship God. Not Brahma, Allah (Islam), the sun, moon, or kami.

The Holy Spirit taught us how to worship, via the Apostles. To not worship as they instructed and to worship like a mob of crazies, is to spit in their faces.

like a mob of crazies?

how any EO could DARE be offended that someone wouldn't like their style of worship is beyond me, with THIS hypocritical judgemental bull.

 

[Montalban]

incorrect.

The bible does not state why God did not accept his offering.

his "style" was identical to that of Abel. They both offered from what they worked.

It says he didn't DO what was right
Genesis 4
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

 

[Uphill Battle]

It says he didn't DO what was right
Genesis 4
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

and what was it he did not "do?" Does the scripture say? Or do you have to depend on tradition to tell you?

 

[Montalban]

like a mob of crazies?

how any EO could DARE be offended that someone wouldn't like their style of worship is beyond me, with THIS hypocritical judgemental bull.

When you can find St Paul saying something along the lines of "Okay, Corinthians, you know the truth, now go and worship in your own individual ways" there's be some kind of point being made!

 

[jckstraw72]

BTW,
You never did answer me, what kind of
music IS acceptable?
And what is liturgy?

here is a link to the text of our usual Liturgy, http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

and you can here a good sample of our music at www.ancientfaithradio.com
our music contains our theology. many contemporary Christian music is just love songs to Jesus -- not much substance. worship music should have substance, and be reverential.

 

[Montalban]

and what was it he did not "do?" Does the scripture say? Or do you have to depend on tradition to tell you?

I don't know what he didn't do. That's not the point. The point is that in 'doing' or 'not doing' he could err in the sight of God.

For those who believe in 'faith alone' the 'doing' or 'not doing' shouldn't matter. And here it did!

If it didn't matter, take a book of Satanic worship with you next time you go to church and read from it. See if it really matters what you do!

 

[jckstraw72]

How is doing what you do any different from what others do in other religions?

we worship the true God, in the manner ordained by God to Moses, which is a copy and shadow of the Heavenly worship (Hebrews 8)