you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[Uphill Battle]

Cain did not bring forth his best. I thought everyone knew that. He offered what he wanted to offer.

Forgive me...

that's the reasoning, yes. (the bible doesn't say "Cain didn't bring his best." Point is, they both offered in the same STYLE.

one was accepted, one was not.

Style was not the issue.

 

[jckstraw72]

one was accepted, one was not.

Style was not the issue.

but arent we supposed to just let it go and worship however we're "led?" worship however we feel?

 

[Uphill Battle]

but arent we supposed to just let it go and worship however we're "led?" worship however we feel?

we're supposed to worship in spirit and truth.

you think that means that you're to do the same thing every week.

I disagree.

 

[jckstraw72]

we're supposed to worship in spirit and truth.

you think that means that you're to do the same thing every week.

I disagree.

so then you believe God horribly misled the Jews, and the worship in Heaven is misled?

every Church Ive ever been in does the same thing every week. in my parent's non-denom church it is:
-- sing 2 or 3 songs
-- sermon
-- sing another song and leave
-------w/ communion before the sermon on certain weeks.

it never changes, and i saw the same songs repeated quite often.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

so then you believe God horribly misled the Jews, and the worship in Heaven is misled?

the same songs repeated quite often.

I believe it is more of the Christians and Muslims misleading the Jews on the Bible and YHWH.

Luke 19:46 Saying to them, "It has been written, 'the House of Me a House of prayer': ye yet it make a den/cave/sphlaion <4693> of thieves.

Reve 6:15 And the kings of the land and the greatest and the thousand-chiefs/chief-of-thousands and the rich ones and the strong ones and every bond-servant and free man hide selves into the caves/sphlaia <4693> and into the rocks of the mountains.

 

[jckstraw72]

I believe it is more of the Christians and Muslims misleading the Jews on the Bible and YHWH.

well God gave the Jews liturgical worship, but UB says that is improper worship.

 

[Uphill Battle]

so then you believe God horribly misled the Jews, and the worship in Heaven is misled?

every Church Ive ever been in does the same thing every week. in my parent's non-denom church it is:
-- sing 2 or 3 songs
-- sermon
-- sing another song and leave
-------w/ communion before the sermon on certain weeks.

it never changes, and i saw the same songs repeated quite often.

glad you don't mind lumping us all together.

and no, God did not mislead the Jews.

I am not a Jew.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

we're supposed to worship in spirit and truth.

you think that means that you're to do the same thing every week.

I disagree.

We see it as...

What is done every week (every day)

... is to be done in Spirit and in Truth.

IOW ~ We are to conform ourselves to these things.

Make them Spiritual.

Make them your own words.

As we recite them, we learn what they mean.

The entire Holy Scripture (Septuagint plus NT minus The Book of Revelation) is read out loud for all to hear, in every language around the world, Liturgically thoughout the year.

The entire Psalms are sung every single week. Day in Day out.

Our children are to be taught the content of The Divine Liturgy. This is how they learn the bible stories. This is how they learn to be reverant. This is where they stand next to me, before God and sing to him as he has desired it to be done.

And it is because of The Divine Liturgy that it is so.

Exactly what part of The Divine Liturgy do people have a problem with? http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

Why do you hate it so? Is it not because you see it as hard to do for one reason or another, or that it's not available in your area and you think we hold that against you?

We are not saying that there should not be freeform worship. We should worship Christ in all ways.

However, we are saying that Liturgy has been done from day one, and it should NOT be done away with, we are to maintain what we have been given.

Your invited to "come and see".

Forgive me...

 

[WarriorAngel]

no. I'm not scripted. And if I don't feel I'd be truly worshiping, I won't sing it.

following a script, I'd be lying to myself, and to God.

The Our Father is scripted.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

However, we are saying that Liturgy has been done from day one, and it should NOT be done away with, we are to maintain what we have been given.

Forgive me...

Greetings!!! What is the closest greek word used in the NT/NC for "liturgy" and is it shown in it? Just curious.

 

[Uphill Battle]

The Our Father is scripted.

yep, it is.

and there is no command to say those exact words over and over and over again as if it is some magical prayer.

Jesus demonstrated real prayer versus constant babble.

 

[jckstraw72]

i believe the Greek word is something like leitourgeion. its something like that, someone else will know better.

 

[jckstraw72]

Jesus demonstrated real prayer versus constant babble.

ok, so now Liturgy is babble, but somehow praise and worship songs with repeated choruses, and songs being used every few weeks ISNT babble? so God instructed the Jews to babble? are the angels who repeatedly cry Holy Holy Holy just babbling?

do you really think it has to be my own words for me to mean it?

 

[Uphill Battle]

ok, so now Liturgy is babble, but somehow praise and worship songs with repeated choruses, and songs being used every few weeks ISNT babble? so God instructed the Jews to babble? are the angels who repeatedly cry Holy Holy Holy just babbling?

do you really think it has to be my own words for me to mean it?

I didn't say that. I was responding to the "Our Father" quip.

and no, it doesn't have to be in your own words.

again, not the point.

 

[jckstraw72]

again, not the point.

then what IS the point? you say you're against "scripted" worship but any time i mention something scripted you say its not the point.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ok, so now Liturgy is babble, but somehow praise and worship songs with repeated choruses, and songs being used every few weeks ISNT babble? so God instructed the Jews to babble? are the angels who repeatedly cry Holy Holy Holy just babbling?

do you really think it has to be my own words for me to mean it?

Let us all "babble" with One Mind, One Voice and One Spirit. AMEN!!! ALLEHUIA!

Ephesians 2:22 in whom also ye are being-builded-together/sun-oik-odomeisqe <4925, into a Habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732> of the God in Spirit.

Reve 18:2 And he cries mightely, in a strong voice, saying, `she falls, she falls, Babylon the great. And she became a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732> of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and prison/fulakh <5438> of every unclean bird and having been hated

 

[Uphill Battle]

then what IS the point? you say you're against "scripted" worship but any time i mention something scripted you say its not the point.

the point is it's prescribed. If you're going to worship, you MUST do it this way. Same as we did last week. If you're going to worship in church, this is how it MUST be done.

 

[jckstraw72]

the point is it's prescribed. If you're going to worship, you MUST do it this way. Same as we did last week. If you're going to worship in church, this is how it MUST be done.

yes. because we dont believe we can improve upon what the Apostles gave us. and by the way, all of our services contain several hymns that change every day. In that respect there's actually greater variety in our worship.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

the point is it's prescribed. If you're going to worship, you MUST do it this way. Same as we did last week. If you're going to worship in church, this is how it MUST be done.

It's never really the same. Day to day... week to week... there are so many variables that it never ceases to amaze me.

And It's beautiful. Quite honestly heavenly.

Forgive me...

 

[Theophorus]

The bible says to worship in spirit, and in truth.

Is truth whatever I determine it to be? Do I have to reinvent the truth every week, month, year or century?