You won't believe this! (or maybe you will)

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Sastan

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Originally posted by Project 86
LOL yeah unless the kids had wings and were a new species.

That's one of the sad facts about science education in so much of the world; it fails to impart a basic education in the science that is taught. I'm guessing you live in the US, which has atrocious standards in scientific education at a high school level.

The point is, if you had made an effort to study evolutionary theory as is taught at a college level without resorting to Creationist propoganda, it would be clear that evolutionary theory in no way predicts such an event...in fact it would defy a logical scientific explanation ie. it would be a supernatural event.

If I were to tell a Christian such as yourself that 'ur God is suxors cuz he can't beat Satan, who has his own kingdom in Hell, i know im right cuz i heard it in a marilyn manson song', I assume you would spot the obvious flaws in that. What would your opinion of myself be, given that I've shown a poor, very cursory knowledge of your religion, yet choose to criticise it?

I don't really mind Creationists criticising scientific theories, but it does irritate me that they do not make a serious effort to understand it from an objective point of view.
 
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Originally posted by Sastan
I don't really mind Creationists criticising scientific theories, but it does irritate me that they do not make a serious effort to understand it from an objective point of view.

the main reason's we're talking about evolution here. (which defies the act of God)
Most people associate evolution with humans evolving from monkeys because that's the most heavily promoted concept. Which means, u can't really blame them for opposing evolution, blame the media for not providing a full story on evolution.

For those who study biology however, evolution is:
- humans and monkeys evolving from a common ancestor
- natural selection: the fittest survive theory

Many scientists are creationists! and they've looked at evolution and creationism from many angles. hey, anyone got any handy websites around?
 
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Wolseley

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This looks like a good place to introduce this. From another board:

My Six-Foot-Long Left Arm
(if I had one, I might believe in evolution)
by Bob Wallace

I ceased believing in the State-sponsored mythology/religion known as materialistic evolution some years ago because of the entrance gate where I used to work. To enter, I had to roll down my car's window and punch a code into a box. The gate would roll open to my right. When I left, I had to roll down my window and press a green button. Since I was at the same gate, but facing the other way, the gate opened to my left. But it never opened far enough to exit. I (and everyone else) had to back my car up and angle it to the right to clear the gate. If I had a left arm that was six feet long, I would have been able to press the button without backing my car up.

So one day I tried to imagine how I could evolve a six-foot-long left arm. The first thing I would have to find a woman with a left arm slightly longer than her right. Then we'd have to have kids. The resulting kids with normal-sized arms would have to be prevented from reproducing-neuter them, I guess. The kids with a longer-than-normal left arms couldn't reproduce with each other, since such incest would quickly de-evolve them into a state of dim-bulbness generally seen only in Hollywood liberals. So they would have to find mates with long left arms and have kids with them. But their offspring would have to consciously find mates with long left arms. After thousands of years, I figured the left arm could be evolved to be six feet long. I mean, if we were able to consciously and intentionally "evolve" all dog breeds this way, couldn't we do the same with humans? If my long-ago ancestors had done this, I would be lopsided enough to open the gate without backing my car up.

This, of course, is ridiculous. Yet a version of this wackiness is what I was essentially what I was taught in the Brain Laundries know as public school. I was taught it in jr. high, high school and college. The version I often ran across was the one Richard Dawkins created-that of the flying squirrel.

Dawkins argued that when squirrels jumped from tree to tree, evolution favored ones with pouches of skin on their sides, between the front and back limbs. After millions of genetic mutations, through millions of years, we ended up with Rocky J. Squirrel.

Now just imagine how this really works. A squirrel (a very stupid squirrel) attempts to jump from one tree to another. He doesn't make it and plummets to his death (this keeps him from reproducing). Generation after generation of moronic squirrels continue to jump and plunge to their demises. Finally, through random genetic mutation, "evolution" grows membranes on the sides (I guess membranes also grew on the top of the head and various other places, but they weren't any good for flight, so somehow these squirrels also died before reproducing. It would have been really cool if somehow these head membranes had evolved into a perfect facsimile of a leather flying helmet and goggles.)

Rocky then, somehow, find his true love (who also happens to have to membranes on her sides) and they have lots of little baby squirrels. The offspring grows up and somehow, somewhere, finds mates who just happen to have these membranes. After untold generations, voila'-we have modern-day flying squirrels. This is the exact same mechanism by which I was supposed to evolve an arm as long as I am tall.

Yeah, right. This isn't science; it's alchemy.

I have asked various Darwinian evolutionists if it would be possible for humans to evolve a six-foot-long left arm. I was told there are "genetic limitations" to what can be done with humans, just as with dog breeds. A dog can be made the size of a Chihuahua, but not a mouse. They can be made the size of a Great Dane, but not an elephant.

"If there are genetic limitations on species," I asked, "then how could one ever evolve into another?"

I've never gotten an answer to that. I've never gotten a believable answer as to why, out of over one hundred million fossils discovered, none are transitional. I was told "punctuated equilibrium" ("punk eek" to the irreverant) was the answer, but when I asked for proof, none was forthcoming. If I asked why no one had ever seen evolution, I was told "there hasn't been enough time." When I commented that the last known species came into existence twenty million to thirty million years ago (which certainly is enough time for something to evolve), I never got an answer. When I suggested that many bacteria reproduce several times an hour, and scientists have subjected billions of generations of bacteria to every conceivable stimuli, and still failed to make them evolve, I was still told "there hasn't been enough time." When I suggesed evolutionary theory isn't science because it's not reproducible, I was told "it's the best explanation we have so far."

When Dawkins commented there is an enormous amount of information in our genes, I've asked evolutionists where this "information" is at. You can't see it, smell it, hear it, touch it...it's a non-material "idea" (and could that be just another word for spiritual?) Most of them didn't even know what I was talking about (it's a philosophical problem called Universals, which is about whether or not "ideas" exist only in our heads or "outside" in "objective reality").

When I suggested materialistic evolutionists were arguing in a circle and begging the question by assuming that evolution was true before they tried to prove it, I was told that science was based on materialism, therefore materialistic evolution had to be true. When I suggested that reality could only make sense if we assumed there was a rational, discoverable, non-material mathematical structure inherent in the universe, and that the universe would be a chaotic mush without it (again, the problem of Universals) most didn't know what I was talking about. When I suggested that the materialistic foundation of science is based on faith, and is therefore a kind of "religion," I was met with contempt. (It's a good thing I never had the chance to ask Dawkins these questions, since he'd probably go all Marv Albert on me.)

Try as hard as I can, I can't find the slightest scrap of evidence that one speicies ever turned into another. And this is from someone who was taught it and originally believed it.

I blame most of this state of affairs on the State's interference in education. Most evolutionists seem to think that if the government didn't have its hand in education, and we had private schools, all of them would immediately sink to the level of fundamentalist Christians teaching evolutionary theory is the work of the Devil and that every word of the Bible is literally true. And that, sooner or later, the whole country would be run by a Christian version of the Taliban.

On the other hand, if the State didn't meddle with education, and we had nothing but private schools, maybe the competition would force legitimate, scientific criticisms of evolutionary theory to be taught. And then teachers couldn't tell "Just-So" stories about retarded flying squirrels crashing into the ground without being met with a barrage of criticism from the students. And that kind of competition and criticism just might advance evolutionary theory into something more rational that it is now...

I guess it's a good thing evolution doesn't exist. If it did, I'd have a heck of a time typing with one arm that much longer than the other.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/wallace7.html
 
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Wolseley

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Bob Wallace followed that article with this one:

The Humorless Church of Darwin
by Bob Wallace

A little while ago I published an article suggesting I should be able to evolve a six-foot-long left arm. I used Richard Dawkin's argument about how flying squirrels evolved sideflaps.

Those who e-mailed me agreeing with me understood I was joking. Those who disagreed with me, well, the humor went right over their heads. They thought I was serious, and that I really believed billions of dumb squirrels, though millions of years, hurtled to their deaths. They didn't get the joke at all.

Some railed against my stupidity and ignorance, and others wrote long, involved, detailed letters telling me how these sideflaps really evolved. Their arguments were as silly as mine. Only they were serious, and I wasn't.

Such seriousness, and such a lack of humor, indicates I was attacking the religion of fanatics. Such earnest protestations led me to believe they were having trouble believing in Holy Darwin and the Church of Evolution, and were desperately trying to convince themselves it really was true.

The response I got was about the same as if I had said, "Yo, Osama you know you got a bunch of false, silly beliefs?" The onslaught began. "Let's set this fool straight-or off with his head! Which is empty! Or if it isn't, he doesn't use it anyway!"

Illustrating a grain of truth by humorous exaggeration is an old literary trick Ridicule is one of the best weapons there is. Voltaire understood this when he wrote, "Lord, please make my opponents ridiculous." And the worst kind of ridicule is when you turn people's guns back on them.

Now it certainly seems to be okay for materialistic evolutionists to mock and abuse religious people who have doubts about evolution. After all, they're just a bunch of ignorant hicks perpetually clutching their Bibles in their hands. They deserve whatever they get, right?

But God forbid that anyone tease an evolutionist, or point out the gaping holes in that pseudo-science known as evolutionary theory, or make fools of them by using their own preposterous concepts against them. I get the same I'm-gonna-go-bin-Laden-on-you attacks I get when I tell Randroids that Atlas Shrugged is a proto-fascist piece of junk.

In this country you can attack just about everything except Darwinism. You can mock Freud, Marxism, liberalism or conservatism. You can claim Catholic priests are pederasts protected by the Catholic Church, you can claim George Bush started this war to get an oil pipeline built through Afghanistan...but you can't mock evolution. Evolutionoids will flop on the ground, their eyes will roll up in the heads, and, yea, they will froth at the mouth and gnash their teeth and throw conniption fits.

One e-mailer suggested this site utilize a science editor so retarded, Forrest Gumpish people such as myself could not voice their opinions. Which means, of course, that anyone with doubts about evolution could never have their say. After all, since evolution is true, then anyone who disagrees with it is automatically wrong, and should be silenced lest they pollute the minds of the young and turn them from the path of righteousness.

When I wondered where the non-material "information" in our DNA is located, one writer suggested I consult a geneticist. That particular problem is not a scientific problem, but a philosophical one. But I was told to ask a geneticist about philosophy.

Others wrote about how dominant sideflap genes came poof into existence, the end result being Rocket J. swooping from tree to tree. Good thing I didn't tease about squirrels wanting to mate with a mutant. They wouldn't have gotten that joke either ("Ooh, look at those bulging, masculine pouches on that manly hunk of squirrel!" "Hey, look at those curvy membranes on that squirrel babe!")

It's another good thing I didn't write about a line of dents in the ground from the launch tree to the landing tree, with another line of dents from the bottom of the landing tree up to the lower branch. They would have thought I was serious about that, too.

I can't do much more than blame this on the State-controlled public schools. When I called them "Brain Laundries" I meant it. Not one of those who supported evolution understood that change within species has nothing to do with one species changing into another. To them, the first meant the second had been proved. This is the same as saying that because "dog" can be turned into "Chihuahua," this means "dog" can be turned, given enough time, into "cat."

But, enough joking.

What science is based on is materialism, i.e., matter is all there is, and life, consciousness and self-consciousness are just epiphenomena, and that it all just somehow "evolved." Supposedly there is no meaning or purpose to anything.

What would you get with such a nihilistic belief system such as this? We can look to the 20th century. You get Nazism and Communism. The Nazis were great believers in evolutionary theory, which is why they killed 12 million wrongly-evolved subhumans in their death camps. And according to evolutionary theory, there was, ultimately, nothing wrong with this. Not only is there nothing wrong with it, it's a good thing!

This is what happens when the leftist State is worshipped as God, and humans are sacrificed to it. And evolutionary theory-a Molochian idol is there ever was one-is one of the means to that end.

Evolutionary theory is not associated with rightism. It is associated with leftism. Leftism is inherently atheistic, materialistic and nihilistic. Just as modern-day evolutionary theory is. No matter what rationalizations evolutionists engage in, it still ultimately comes down to the fact they believe Man means no more than a cockroach. That's why loony leftist environmentalist wackos, with their "A pig is a rat is a boy," are actually in bed with the Darwinists.

A rightist conservative/classical liberal/libertarian, believes in a Higher Law. That right and wrong are not simply one's opinions, as they are with leftists and materialistic evolutionists. Right and wrong are built into the very fabric of the universe, and are discoverable, just as the laws of math and physics are discoverable.

One cannot be a rightist and believe in materialistic evolutionary theory. One cannot believe right and wrong are absolute, and at the same time believe they are merely one's opinions. One cannot say, "It's wrong to murder people," when evolutionary theory says, "Hey, no problem." And when people babble about "compassion" genes or whatever rationalization they use, they still cannot overcome the fact that evolutionists have no defense against the rightness of genocide.

People who truly, honestly believe in materialistic evolutionary theory are not rightists. They're leftists.

Neocons can claim they're conservative, but they're not. They're fascists and socialists masquerading as conservatives. Libertarians can claim they support the American Empire and the war in Afghanistan (never mind the fact the real threat is the Saudi/Wahabi Fifth Column in the U.S.) but they're not libertarians. And those who believe in evolutionary theory can call themselves libertarians and classical liberals all they want, but they're leftists, with all of the wackiness and self-delusion inherent in it.

By the way, billions of squirrels really did crash their little squirrel skulls into the ground.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/wallace8.html
 
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Originally posted by Wolseley
This looks like a good place to introduce this. From another board:

My Six-Foot-Long Left Arm
(if I had one, I might believe in evolution)
by Bob Wallace

I have asked various Darwinian evolutionists if it would be possible for humans to evolve a six-foot-long left arm. I was told there are "genetic limitations" to what can be done with humans, just as with dog breeds. A dog can be made the size of a Chihuahua, but not a mouse. They can be made the size of a Great Dane, but not an elephant.

"If there are genetic limitations on species," I asked, "then how could one ever evolve into another?"


I guess it's a good thing evolution doesn't exist. If it did, I'd have a heck of a time typing with one arm that much longer than the other.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/wallace7.html

LOL man, that was hiliarious! thx for the post Wolseley!
 
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Wolseley

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Interesting site, Nick.

I hope their information on evolution is more accurate than their information of Catholicism. :eek: I even saw a portion of the infamous "Boettner list" over there, and if they're depnding on that garbage for information about Catholicism, they're being very truly misled. :(
 
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