you will be judged even if decieved

[createdtoworship]

For a long time I believed God will never judge those who don't know about him.

but given the law of nature* innate in our mental instincts.

Even if we are deceived it appears God will still judge* us.

source: (adam and eve being deceived still rejected from the garden).

so this motive that satan can deceive man in a way that makes God curse his creation, has been the motive of satan for thousands of years.

But I used to try to sugar coat my ideas, that the pigmi's in africa never heard the Gospel and would be safe.

but the truth is, that via deception of the prince of the air, the chances are not looking good for them.

hence this motive led one of the greatest missionary movements of our time.

1789-1914 the great missionary era.

We are no longer in a missionary era, and that is unfortunate.

what are your thoughts.

Footnotes:

*law of nature, as explained by CS lewis (explanation of this is allowed on this thread)
**Judgement - great white throne judgement, of all wrong doings: Revelation 20:12-14: "12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."


(note:now, one can argue that eve was the one deceived and not adam. Meaning that either He KNEW what was happening, and chose to do it anyway. Which begs the question when we are deceived, if deep inside, if we REALLY are suppressing the truth for a lie.)

see truth decay in OP

 

[createdtoworship]

the punishment that eve had even though she was thoroughly decieved:

Genesis 3:16 (NKJV) To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

while there were curses given to adam and the serpent, eve was merely punished. So the affect of the punishment is lessened by the fact that someone was naive to the truth.

but still the point is that you can be totally naive to christianity and have never heard about it, and when you sin, you will still be punished. And it's based on the law of nature that you DO know.

 

[Desk trauma]

We are no longer in a missionary era, and that is unfortunate.

Where should Missionaries be sent to and where should they come from?

 

[Strivax]

Even if we are deceived it appears God will still judge* us.

I think that, in the end, there just is a an objective morality we shall be held accountable against. And that, though humanity has made moral progress towards that objectivity in the past, and I hope will continue to do so, we are not yet at the point where we can say for sure what that ideal morality actually is, either individually or communally. So, justly, a just God will judge us impartially against that perfect morality, but take into consideration as a mitigating circumstance the historical and geographical society and social norms into which He has thrust us, without our prior knowledge or consent.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Greg J.]

Everyone is born into a family (humanity) that has rejected God, and the first time they sin they confirm it. God is not condemning by nature, but on Judgment day he will be the executor of justice. It is not wrong to say that a person who chooses to do evil is condemning himself. It is not because of the judge, jury, and prison warden that a person deserves to go to prison. It is good to not blame God for a human's wrongdoing. One can complain they don't like God's standard, but that doesn't change the fact that God is GOD ("and you're not"). He was/is the creator, not the other way around.

Adam was not deceived when he first sinned; he sinned intentionally, which was a sin for which he could do nothing to pay. (Trusting that God would pay for the sin for him has always been available for forgiveness.) This is a conclusion that is available to everyone through the study of nature, people, relationships, and ethics/morality. But they usually won't find it unless they've humbled themselves and believe God is real and believe it is right that God is their judge.

God will not judge those that don't believe in him the same way as those who believe in him. Because we have a sinful nature, no one can even keep his own standards of morality. We all need to accept Jesus as our Lord to receive the benefit of his sacrifice for our sins. (In this context, Lord refers to one who has the right to define morality for you and hold you accountable to it.)

For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) (Romans 2:11-15, 1984 NIV)

 

[createdtoworship]

I think that, in the end, there just is a an objective morality we shall be held accountable against. And that, though humanity has made moral progress towards that objectivity in the past, and I hope will continue to do so, we are not yet at the point where we can say for sure what that ideal morality actually is, either individually or communally. So, justly, a just God will judge us impartially against that perfect morality, but take into consideration as a mitigating circumstance the historical and geographical society and social norms into which He has thrust us, without our prior knowledge or consent.

Best wishes, Strivax.

sincere question-

how does he judge us according to a law where "we are not yet at the point"

of knowing?

See I believe we are all given this info at birth, or at age of accountability, or both.

 

[createdtoworship]

Where should Missionaries be sent to and where should they come from?

Acts 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

but the point is that missionaries are being persecuted now more than ever....even world vision was hacked by a hacker and they stole alot of money and donated it to hammas.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/largest-christian-charity-infiltrated-by-hamas/

and not only social, and economic persecution as well as political, but often physical:

see how many christian isis has killed (just google it)

or see this site:
http://www.persecution.org/

I can see why missionaries are scared to be missionaries.

 

[Desk trauma]

Acts 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

but the point is that missionaries are being persecuted now more than ever....even world vision was hacked by a hacker and they stole alot of money and donated it to hammas.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/largest-christian-charity-infiltrated-by-hamas/

I don't see how any part of that is an answer to my question. What countries are needing missionaries? What countries should supply them? Why do foreign preachers need to go when there are native Christian populations?

 

[joshua 1 9]

source: (adam and eve being deceived still rejected from the garden).

Eve was deceived, Adam was not deceived.

1Timothy2 "For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression. 15 Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.…"

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Created sick, commanded to be well.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I can see why missionaries are scared to be missionaries.

There are plenty of people we can help to go to School to learn how to be missionaries in their own country. Even now a days people can get a good Bible college education on line.

 

[Desk trauma]

Created sick, commanded to be well.

Create the problem, offer the solution.

 

[Strivax]

See I believe we are all given this info at birth, or at age of accountability, or both.

Clearly we are not, or social mores would be a constant factor through history and across geography. And even in our own time and place, ethics and morals are controversial matters. And, of course, neither babes in arms nor spotty adolescents have much to contribute to that controversy.

sincere question - how does he judge us according to a law where "we are not yet at the point" of knowing?

The principle is well established in law, as far back as the Romans.

Take the recent incidents concerning moslem male refugee migrants in Germany. They were ignorant of laws against sexual harassment, and as far as they were concerned, the way women dress in the west means they are prostitutes, or, at least, sexually available. So, among other unpleasantnesses, they went around public places in gangs putting their hands up women's skirts. When the culprits are identified, they are rightly tried, judged and sentenced according to German law, not their own 'moral' attitudes.

Ignorantia juris non excusat (Ignorance of the law is no excuse).

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Create the problem, offer the solution.

Your are more correct than you realize.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

but the truth is, that via deception of the prince of the air, the chances are not looking good for them.

hence this motive led one of the greatest missionary movements of our time.

what are your thoughts.

Only God knows for sure what will happen to them. Acceptance of Jesus Christ and the gospel message would destroy their culture. Jesus sent the disciples to lost Israel, not to the pigmies, saying that they would not have reached all the cities of Israel before he returns.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Acts 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

but the point is that missionaries are being persecuted now more than ever....even world vision was hacked by a hacker and they stole alot of money and donated it to hammas.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/largest-christian-charity-infiltrated-by-hamas/

and not only social, and economic persecution as well as political, but often physical:

see how many christian isis has killed (just google it)

or see this site:
http://www.persecution.org/

I can see why missionaries are scared to be missionaries.

Perhaps God is ending his missionary outreach and we are entering the "famine of the word" period. The times are certainly ripe for this.

 

[jayem]

This is another thread that should be in a Christians-only forum. Most all of us non-believers reject the premise of any kind of god who judges anyone.

 

[Strivax]

sincere question-

how does he judge us according to a law where "we are not yet at the point"

of knowing?

This is another thread that should be in a Christians-only forum. Most all of us non-believers reject the premise of any kind of god who judges anyone.

Just think of God as axiomatic to the universe, a theory to be explored, and a basis for further argument. Some of us accept the founding premise, some of us don't. But it should not prevent us communicating, if only on a 'what if it was this way?' basis.

Cheers, Strivax.

PS. Incidentally, there are believers who think that atheists, who do not consider they will ever be held existentially accountable for their thoughts, words and deeds, have no solid reason to be moral, only to do whatever is expediently to their advantage. That includes wilfully disbelieving, and fostering wilful disbelief, so that they may pursue their own advantage without moral hindrance.

In contrast, the believer's idea of life's purpose being to approach in nature an omnibenevolent God tends to focus his or her mind on developing a disposition towards goodness, or virtue, rather than selfish concerns.

Anyway, that is one direction in which the axiom, accepted or rejected, may make for character differences. And, since the world reflects our aggregate character, global differences, as well. S.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is another thread that should be in a Christians-only forum. Most all of us non-believers reject the premise of any kind of god who judges anyone.

Why are you here if you dont want to believe christian ideas? Sincerely? And i mean ANY part of a christian forum. Not just christian only sections.

 

[createdtoworship]

Clearly we are not, or social mores would be a constant factor through history and across geography. And even in our own time and place, ethics and morals are controversial matters. And, of course, neither babes in arms nor spotty adolescents have much to contribute to that controversy.



The principle is well established in law, as far back as the Romans.

Take the recent incidents concerning moslem male refugee migrants in Germany. They were ignorant of laws against sexual harassment, and as far as they were concerned, the way women dress in the west means they are prostitutes, or, at least, sexually available. So, among other unpleasantnesses, they went around public places in gangs putting their hands up women's skirts. When the culprits are identified, they are rightly tried, judged and sentenced according to German law, not their own 'moral' attitudes.

Ignorantia juris non excusat (Ignorance of the law is no excuse).

Cheers, Strivax.

no where in the world is cutting in line acceptible, regardless of race, ethnicity or local. You can even go as far as saying selfishness in general is avoided in civil laws world wide. But what law are they following? It's not the herd instinct, as a herd instinct simply is following the others in your type of species, to safety, or to food. A herd instinct would not apply. So then since it is not the herd instinct what law are people following to say that one should not be selfish?(as in cutting in line)