You may qualify as a rocket scientist.....

[Douggg]

The 3.5 year great tribulation will start when (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed to the world in Jerusalem, proclaim to be God Messiah on earth

You did not say how 3.5 years fits into a 7 literal days 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

As was shown, it's a "Future" command to build

What are you talking about ? Jerusalem is already a bustling city.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

[Truth7t7]

You did not say how 3.5 years fits into a 7 literal days 70th week.

Once again, I don't follow nor does the bible teach what you have been taught in dispensationalism

In the "Future" literal 70th week the (Man Of Sin) is revealed, at this time the 3.5 year tribulation starts

Please review post #16 that fully explains the future literal 70 weeks

 

[Truth7t7]

What are you talking about ? Jerusalem is already a bustling city.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The street and wall will be built, I believe around the Temple mound, your suggestion it's a complete rebuild of Jerusalem is wrong

A Wall and Street, even in troubled times in Jerusalem

 

[Douggg]

The street and wall will be built, I believe around the Temple mound, your suggestion it's a complete rebuild of Jerusalem is wrong

A Wall and Street, even in troubled times in Jerusalem

What bible verse are you getting "a 3.5 year tribulation" ?

btw, 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 do not fit within 3.5 years (3.5 x360 = 1260 days). Neither do the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 fits within 3.5 years (1260 days)

 

[Douggg]

Once again, I don't follow nor does the bible teach what you have been taught in dispensationalism

In the "Future" literal 70th week the (Man Of Sin) is revealed, at this time the 3.5 year tribulation starts

Please review post #16 that fully explains the future literal 70 weeks

So you think that all of Christianity who use Daniel 9's 70 weeks prophecy to prove that Jesus is the messiah are wrong to do so ?

I am not a dispensationalist, btw.

Your post #16 is confusing for anyone to try to understand it.

Do you know how to make a timeline of events ?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I am saying that they (the seventh trumpet and the fifth trumpet) are pretty close. Because Satan is the falling angel in Revelation 9:1, who is cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9 having just a time/times/half time left.

I put the time duration that each of those two woes lasts - so that a person can see the third woe lasts longer than the other two woes.

And that the other two woes fit withn that time/times/half time frame that Satan will be a terror.

Graftedbranch is right on this. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY for the 5th trumpet and 7th trumpet to overlap in time. Because...

Revelation 9:12 - "One woe is PAST" (which 1st woe is equal to the 5th trumpet being completed) "And behold, there come two woes more HEREAFTER" (which is equal to the 6th trumpet and the 7th trumpet coming in sequence AFTER the 5th trumpet on the calendar was over). That literal five months of torment was going to be fulfilled history before the 6th and 7th trumpet were ever sounded.

(I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but you also have just a small typo that you might want to change from "tomenting" into "tormenting".)

Alright Doug I think we do agree here, I would even say everywhere in the Bible we see a kingdom that last forever it’s talking about the same kingdom and this kingdom, once established, never stops and starts again as it’s continuous.

The big difference in peoples views seems to be when does or did this kingdom start. According to Revelation 11:15 it starts when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet. Would you then agree that the kingdom starts prior to the Daniel 2 statue being broken into pieces?

This Revelation 11:15 verse about plural kingdoms of this world becoming Christ's is different from when Christ became king of a single kingdom. That establishment of Christ's single kingdom of the New Covenant in His blood happened at Christ's resurrection-day ascension when God "set His king upon His holy hill of Zion" (Psalms 2:6) as our Great High Priest "king of kings". This crowning of Christ as the High Priest "king of kings" never has an end to His continuous reign as our intercessor.

But those plural kingdoms of this world (over which Satan had once boasted having the power and glory of these kingdoms in Luke 4:5-7) were to become Christ's when Satan was destroyed and turned into ashes, as in Ezekiel 28:18-19. Christ was then to confiscate all those plural kingdoms as His own when He broke that statue into dust on the wind. This is why Christ is pictured as wearing those "MANY crowns" of the kingdoms of this world in Revelation 19:12 - not to be confused with the single crown of His High Priesthood which Christ has continually worn since His resurrection-day ascension.

 

[Douggg]

(I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but you also have just a small typo that you might want to change from "tomenting" into "tormenting".)

Thanks, I fixed it.

 

[Douggg]

Graftedbranch is right on this. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY for the 5th trumpet and 7th trumpet to overlap in time. Because...

Revelation 9:12 - "One woe is PAST" (which 1st woe is equal to the 5th trumpet being completed) "And behold, there come two woes more HEREAFTER" (which is equal to the 6th trumpet and the 7th trumpet coming in sequence AFTER the 5th trumpet on the calendar was over). That literal five months of torment was going to be fulfilled history before the 6th and 7th trumpet were ever sounded.

Sorry, but not that simple, 3 Resurrections.

Revelation 3 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


Following Revelation 11:14, which advises that the third woe comes quickly (i.e. soon to be shown to John) the word "woe" is found in only one place in the remainder of Revelation. And that is in Revelation 12:12.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

______________________________________________________________________________

So, Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter., is talking about that John would be SHOWN what the other two woes would be - in the remainder of Revelation.

On a timeline of events fulfilled, Satan's cast down to earth in Revelation 12:9 will coincide as being the falling angel in Revelation 9:1, given the keys to the bottomless pit, which he uses to open, not only to release his cohorts thereafter to be judged, but also carries out his wrath - which Ezekiel 28:16-19 says for the period that he is cast down to earth, Satan will be a terror.

The time span of the third woe lasts for the time/times/half that Satan will have left before he is cast into the bottomless pit at Jesus's return.

 

[Truth7t7]

What bible verse are you getting "a 3.5 year tribulation" ?

btw, 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 do not fit within 3.5 years (3.5 x360 = 1260 days). Neither do the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 fits within 3.5 years (1260 days)

The Beast will be in power 42 months = 3.5 years, this will be the tribulation

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The time span of the third woe lasts for the time/times/half that Satan will have left before he is cast into the bottomless pit at Jesus's return.

You have this twisted around. Satan is FIRST bound and sealed in the abyss for a literal thousand years, then released for just a short time after the thousand years expired, to terrorize the inhabitants of the earth. Then he is slain by God at Christ's return and reduced to ashes on the earth, so that he exists no more, as Ezekiel 28:18-19 predicted.

John said in that Revelation 12:12 verse that Satan at that time had already come down to earth to harass the inhabitants of the earth and sea in John's days. That "woeful" situation was already present back then, and would only last for a "short time" until God crushed Satan under the feet of the saints "shortly" (Romans 16:20). This "short time" of Satan's release on earth lasted longer than the 3-1/2 years you are assigning to it.

 

[Douggg]

You have this twisted around. Satan is FIRST bound and sealed in the abyss for a literal thousand years, then released for just a short time after the thousand years expired, to terrorize the inhabitants of the earth.

The third woe lasting a time/times/half time takes place in the 7-year 70th week second half.

A thousand years later after Satan is released from the bottomless pit prison, he will be able to deceive the nations again, but he will not be a terror like in the time/time/half time - woe to inhabitors of the earth.

 

[Douggg]

John said in that Revelation 12:12 verse that Satan at that time had already come down to earth to harass the inhabitants of the earth and sea in John's days. That "woeful" situation was already present back then, and would only last for a "short time" until God crushed Satan under the feet of the saints "shortly" (Romans 16:20). This "short time" of Satan's release on earth lasted longer than the 3-1/2 years you are assigning to it.

Revelation 12:7-14 takes place after the 1260 day first half of the seven years, in Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12:12 is the third woe to the inhibitors of the earth, to take place in the second half of the seven years.

 

[Douggg]

The Beast will be in power 42 months = 3.5 years, this will be the tribulation

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

In Matthew 24:21, Jesus called that time, the "great tribulation". Why are you calling it "the great tribulation" ?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Also, in Matthew 24:15, Jesus said that period will begin when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place, spoke of by the prophet Daniel.

So when we go to Daniel 12:11-12, and the abomination of desolation setup - there are 1290 days and 1335 days. Those do not fit within a 3.5 year - 1260 day period.

 

[grafted branch]

This Revelation 11:15 verse about plural kingdoms of this world becoming Christ's is different from when Christ became king of a single kingdom. That establishment of Christ's single kingdom of the New Covenant in His blood happened at Christ's resurrection-day ascension when God "set His king upon His holy hill of Zion" (Psalms 2:6) as our Great High Priest "king of kings". This crowning of Christ as the High Priest "king of kings" never has an end to His continuous reign as our intercessor.

But those plural kingdoms of this world (over which Satan had once boasted having the power and glory of these kingdoms in Luke 4:5-7) were to become Christ's when Satan was destroyed and turned into ashes, as in Ezekiel 28:18-19. Christ was then to confiscate all those plural kingdoms as His own when He broke that statue into dust on the wind. This is why Christ is pictured as wearing those "MANY crowns" of the kingdoms of this world in Revelation 19:12 - not to be confused with the single crown of His High Priesthood which Christ has continually worn since His resurrection-day ascension.

Thanks for pointing that out, I do agree with you that Christ gets His kingdom prior to the kingdom’s of this world becoming the kingdom of our Lord.

I think Daniel 7:14 shows the kingdom being given, which I place just after Christ arose.

 

[Douggg]

Thanks for pointing that out, I do agree with you that Christ gets His kingdom prior to the kingdom’s of this world becoming the kingdom of our Lord.

I think Daniel 7:14 shows the kingdom being given, which I place just after Christ arose.

Jesus's kingdom at present is the Kingdom of Heaven. At His Second Coming, He brings the Kingdom of Heaven down to the earth to be the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Which in the Lord's prayer is "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven"

 

[3 Resurrections]

The third woe lasting a time/times/half time takes place in the 7-year 70th week second half.

Daniel's 70th week of 7 years confirming the (new) covenant with Daniel's people ended in AD 37 with Paul's commission by God to concentrate his evangelism from then on to the Gentile nations (Acts 22:17-21). The last 3-1/2 years of that 70th week began a time of "woe" for the inhabitants of "earth" and "sea" (both Jew and Gentile nations), but this wrathful harassment of the early church by Satan was not just limited to only those last 3-1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week ending in AD 37.

Christ had predicted that devils would come to oppress that generation of Israel in its "last state" in seven-fold numbers more wicked than when He had been among them casting out devils. The three "woes" listed in Revelation 8:13 (equal to the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets) are specific events that took place under that period of harassment by Satan in that first-century generation's "last state" before Jerusalem was destroyed and the nation fell back under Roman control again.

To paraphrase one commentator I once read, scripture's use of symbolic "broken sevens" amounting to 3-1/2 demonstrates traumatic events, and acts as a stark contrast to the perfection and completeness expressed in the number 7.

A thousand years later after Satan is released from the bottomless pit prison, he will be able to deceive the nations again, but he will not be a terror like in the time/time/half time - woe to inhabitors of the earth.

That literal thousand years expired with Christ's ascension when Satan was cast out of heaven down to earth for that "short time" of freely deceiving the nations once more. That is why we have the warnings in scripture at that time of Satan as a "roaring lion walking about, seeking whom he may devour". This was a furious Satan pictured in full deceptive operating mode back then - the reason why Ephesians' "armor of God" was absolutely essential for those times. There are constant warnings for those first-century believers to "be not deceived" in those days. That is because a loosed Satan's deception (after the millennium ended) was in full swing for that "short time". This "short time" and "little season" ended long ago after he was destroyed to ashes on the earth, as Ezekiel 28:18-19 predicted.

Revelation 12:7-14 takes place after the 1260 day first half of the seven years, in Revelation 12:6.

Not really. The war in heaven with Satan and his devils versus Michael and his angels took place during the time Christ's body was in the tomb. When Christ ascended, the blood of that risen Lamb applied to heaven's mercy seat was the cause of Satan's being "overcome" and cast out of heaven down to earth with his devils, to oppress the inhabitants of the earth and sea. Then soon after at Pentecost, the Jewish leadership under Satan's instigation began a persecution of the believers of the early church - threatening them, imprisoning them, beating them, etc.

Saul / Paul's participation in this persecution with the help of the high priesthood was the "flood" which the Dragon used in trying to overcome the fleeing "woman". The believers of the early church upon the martyrdom of Stephen quite literally "fled into the wilderness" from Jerusalem ("scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles") for a period of about 3-1/2 years into the place prepared for her by God for "1260 days" i.e., "a time, times, and half a time". Once Paul became converted, that "flood" of persecution was "swallowed up". Satan lost one of his main tools for harassing the new believers with the conversion of Paul. Which reeeeeally provoked Satan to show great wrath against the "woman" by "making war with the remnant of her seed".

 

[grafted branch]

Jesus's kingdom at present is the Kingdom of Heaven. At His Second Coming, He brings the Kingdom of Heaven down to the earth to be the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Which in the Lord's prayer is "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven"

What do you see happening to the Kingdom of Heaven when the current heaven and earth are destroyed? Does the kingdom of heaven continue in its original form or do you think it will become a new Kingdom of Heaven when the NHNE arrives?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I think Daniel 7:14 shows the kingdom being given, which I place just after Christ arose.

Absolutely, I think so too.

 

[Douggg]

What do you see happening to the Kingdom of Heaven when the current heaven and earth are destroyed? Does the kingdom of heaven continue in its original form or do you think it will become a new Kingdom of Heaven when the NHNE arrives?

The term kingdom does not appear in Revelation 21.

In the new heaven, new earth creation there will be no sin, no death, like during the millennium rule of Christ on this present earth.

So, I am thinking it will be "The Kingdom of the Eternal Will of God".