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ameriswede

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Lovely Lane, thanks for your expression of appreciation. I have felt coerced to engage myself in the political discussions that I have been following from a distance. I could no longer sit still and just listen to all the propaganda and misinformation that is being spread by a what is most often referred to as "the right wing".


18 month paternal leave with job security and 80% of salary.
Quality child care at very low cost.
Free Dental care until 21 years of age.

Unemployment benefits you can survive on.
Quality health care at no cost. (care costs max $300 a year, meds max $300 a year)
Schooling is free. (with youth in High School, governmental subvention of $200 per youth for living costs). Higher Education entirely free, students get $400 a month for living expenses.
By law everyone has at least 5 weeks of vacation.
Reasonable retirement benefits, though lessening.

There is a good deal more, but these are some of the major things that EACH AND EVERY PERSON IS ENTITLED TOO.

For that possibility, there is only one way to get that done, through the tax system. Taxes are high, no question about it, but so is the quality of life.
 
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IisJustMe

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There is a good deal more, but these are some of the major things that EACH AND EVERY PERSON IS ENTITLED TOO.
And there's the problem. You think you're "entiled" to it. That's nonsense. No one is "entitled" to anything other than the freedom to use their ability to make their own way in this world. Feel free to move back to the US, because everyone here is "entitled" also, and that's what's wrong with the country.
 
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Membership has it's entitlements/privileges, just ask the wealthy.

Citizens of a nation are members of that nation and should be entitled to the bounty of that nation, i.e.; medical, education, food, clothing and shelter. So that they too become productive members and pay-forward to the next generation.

Yes, it is true about it takes a village to raise a child, and a nation to raise up a better generation.
 
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Publius

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He has a point. Nobody gets to where they are in life without the influence of others. If one is successful in school, they were helped along that path by their parents, teachers, etc. If one is successful in business, they were helped along by mentors who guided them.

Which one of my mentors put the money up to invest in my business? Which one of them did all of the work? Which one of them is responsible for the success or failure of our family's business? Which one of them stands to lose their homes if the business is not successful? Which one of them is responsible for navigating the endless stream of government regulations? Which one of them is responsible for the day to day running of our business? Which one deals with vendors? With retailers?

Sorry, Barry, but my wife and I created our business on our own.

Who ran their shop while they went to NC? Who sold them the materials for their first plane?

People who were compensated for their time and for their merchandise.

Just another misconstrued bunch of sour grapes here folks...use your own brains and ability to think critically instead of buying into some other misinformed, biased, talking head's opinion of a speech...

Said the person who's buying into the misinformed, biased, Marxist in Chief's speech.

Hoorah! Participation trophies for all!
 
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6. I must say that I find it surprising that so many Christian Americans are so focused on the Almight Dollar.

Your whole argument is summed up in this one sentence. America is separated by the haves and the have nots by such a large gap that we tend to forget that the love of money is the root of all evil.

Yeah.......we have long since fallen for loving evil.

And on a side note to all my conservative brothers and sisters.......Our God never tells us the love of health care or provision is the root of all evil. He makes His Word quite clear. PERIOD.
 
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TheChristianSurvivalGuide

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Membership has it's entitlements/privileges, just ask the wealthy.

Citizens of a nation are members of that nation and should be entitled to the bounty of that nation, i.e.; medical, education, food, clothing and shelter. So that they too become productive members and pay-forward to the next generation.

Yes, it is true about it takes a village to raise a child, and a nation to raise up a better generation.

I think that the opinion of most right leaning thinkers is that too many persons who are given access to a portion of the bounty you spoke of are making the choice not to become more productive and this not pay forward or otherwise positively contribute to said bounty of the nation.

My opinion is that if such is true and we as a nation allow this to happen that given the cultural climate and acceptance of these "non-producers" - relative to their lack of contributions to the national bounty - that eventually we will have a majority of not only non-producers, but of nation members who only receive from the national bounty causing a minority to contribute more than what I would call their "fair share".
 
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Publius

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Almighty's humble servant said:
And on a side note to all my conservative brothers and sisters.......Our God never tells us the love of health care or provision is the root of all evil. He makes His Word quite clear. PERIOD.

OK. Where in His Word does He ever say that money is to be taken from one group of people who have earned it to be given to another group who has not?

Where does He tell us that it's up to the government to "help" the poor?
 
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OK. Where in His Word does He ever say that money is to be taken from one group of people who have earned it to be given to another group who has not?

Where does He tell us that it's up to the government to "help" the poor?

I think He was clear in what Words He has given us. If you don't see the writing on the wall.....well.....I can't imagine you would be able to read it.

If I remove the blinders of my pride, I would see more clearly. I think that goes for my fellow brothers and sisters as well.;)
 
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Publius

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I think He was clear in what Words He has given us. If you don't see the writing on the wall.....well.....I can't imagine you would be able to read it.

If I remove the blinders of my pride, I would see more clearly. I think that goes for my fellow brothers and sisters as well.;)

You've said twice now that it's "clear", but you still can't tell us what it says or where it says it. That's not "clear".
 
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IisJustMe

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ameriswede

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And there's the problem. You think you're "entiled" to it. That's nonsense. No one is "entitled" to anything other than the freedom to use their ability to make their own way in this world. Feel free to move back to the US, because everyone here is "entitled" also, and that's what's wrong with the country.
It's not a "problem", it's a priviledge. One which everyone is entitled too. Those that have the possibility of making it on their own and are able to make that happen, pay a little bit more, so that the less fortunate (sick and disbabled and those less fortunate than most) can manage in life. It is simply a system based on solidarity. It is certainly not an "evil" system to be feared. I would even argue, that in some ways, it is one that many find quite attractive. I know of a lot of Americans, once they visit Sweden, or hear about how things actually are in this "socialist" country...have no explanation to why a "rich" country like USA has to have so many poor, not be able to insure that all its people have acces to education and health care. It really is not all that complicated. It is just a matter of sharing a little more justly, what the people of a nation produce in wealth, as a whole. The filthy rich will still be rich. It is the filthy poor, that will not be so many. I was so saddened to our recent trip to San Diego, where you have people sleeping in the streets...like, all over the place.
 
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IisJustMe

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It's not a "problem", it's a priviledge. One which everyone is entitled too. Those that have the possibility of making it on their own and are able to make that happen, pay a little bit more, so that the less fortunate (sick and disbabled and those less fortunate than most) can manage in life.
It sounds grand in black and white. All noble and socially relevant. The facts are, the system is abused, it provides poor quality care, it undermines productivity of a nation and its people.
It is simply a system based on solidarity.
The primary beneficiaries of it -- those who abuse the system, who haven't the work ethic to provide even minimally for themselves and their families -- certainly think so. Those who are forced to give up their hard-earned income in order to support the former certainly do not think so. You have a very idealistic view of what your system accomplishes. You ignore the fraud, the medical neglect and incompetence, the overall malaise that sets into the professionals providing the services and bureaucrats who long ago gave up trying to reform it. I've seen the figures on Swedish medical care. You have these issues. I find it odd that you gloss over them in trying to support this unsupportable system.
It is certainly not an "evil" system to be feared. I would even argue, that in some ways, it is one that many find quite attractive.
Orwell's state officials said the same thing about their system.
I know of a lot of Americans, once they visit Sweden, or hear about how things actually are in this "socialist" country...have no explanation to why a "rich" country like USA has to have so many poor, not be able to insure that all its people have acces to education and health care.
They, like you, have bought into the liberal/socialist lie that there are people in this country denied healthcare, education and a chance to improve themselves. It is nothing but a lie. No one can be denied healthcare, pregnant mothers who don't get prenatal care have no one but themselves to blame because it is readily available. Horror stories that "prove" the lie can always, always be traced to irresponsibility or neglect on the part of the patient who then decries his/her own inability to "get healthcare" when in fact they could have had it at any time.
It really is not all that complicated. It is just a matter of sharing a little more justly, what the people of a nation produce in wealth, as a whole. The filthy rich will still be rich. It is the filthy poor, that will not be so many.
I'll tell you a story.

A Nigerian government official visited Kansas City several years ago in conjunction with the Sister Cities program. After being shown the typical glowing shrines and great icons of an American city, she was asked what she would like to see next. She said, "Show me your poor." So they arranged an auto tour of east KC, which some have said could give east LA a run for its money. Yet, when completed, she said of the tour, "You didn't show me your poor." The city officials assured her they had. Her response: "Every driveway had a car in it. Every child I saw had a coat, they had toys, they lived within walking distance of a school. Yes, I saw drug dealers on the corners and abandoned homes. But that isn't from lack of income. That is from lack of personal responsibility. I can only conclude you have no poor."

By her standards, she was absolutely right. We don't have "poor" in this country. They could be called "disadvantage" but most of that is because of their own lack of work ethic. We have raised six generations of "welfare babies" in this country, and the current generation believes they are owed a living without holding a job, an education without studying and now medical care without responsibility to pay. Yet there are those among them who have refused to buy into the system. They have refused to seek the government for sustenance, support or handouts. They have made it on their own, getting Ivy League educations and building dynamic businesses they employ people who actually want to work. Most of these have turned their backs on the system from which they came and challenged their people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps as they did, even establishing foundations that will help them do so if they choose.

Jesse Jackson attempted to do that. His message was one of a self-reliant, bootstrap mentality. He was telling Chicago youth the system didn't work, and never would. He challenged them to prove themselves instead of letting others care for them. That didn't sit well with the Chicago political machine. They are, after all, Democrats. Democrats built the system under Kennedy, Johnson and Carter. Democrats depend on the votes the system generates for them. No one is going to bite the hand that feeds them, afterall.

So they co-opted Jesse. They offered him a seat at the table, whispered sweet nothings in his ear, planted dreams of the Senate and the White House in his mind. But once they had him, they muzzled him. The Rainbow Coalition died a quiet and uneventful death. With died the real hope of the welfare generations.

You think you have paradise in Sweden. You have a docile, unmotivated general population with some success stories of free enterprise and riches to make you think you have a good thing. You don't.

You are just a more upscale ghetto than we do.
I was so saddened to our recent trip to San Diego, where you have people sleeping in the streets...like, all over the place.[/quote]
 
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IisJustMe

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I made my point earlier in the thread quoting Scripture. Nice and easy and CLEAR.

However, the brother asked me to search out Scripture for him. That's not why i am here. ;)
You didn't find Scripture directing the government to help the poor. Sorry, that's not in the Bible.
 
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ameriswede

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It sounds grand in black and white. All noble and socially relevant. The facts are, the system is abused, it provides poor quality care, it undermines productivity of a nation and its people.The primary beneficiaries of it -- those who abuse the system, who haven't the work ethic to provide even minimally for themselves and their families -- certainly think so. Those who are forced to give up their hard-earned income in order to support the former certainly do not think so. You have a very idealistic view of what your system accomplishes. You ignore the fraud, the medical neglect and incompetence, the overall malaise that sets into the professionals providing the services and bureaucrats who long ago gave up trying to reform it. I've seen the figures on Swedish medical care. You have these issues. I find it odd that you gloss over them in trying to support this unsupportable system.Orwell's state officials said the same thing about their system.They, like you, have bought into the liberal/socialist lie that there are people in this country denied healthcare, education and a chance to improve themselves. It is nothing but a lie. No one can be denied healthcare, pregnant mothers who don't get prenatal care have no one but themselves to blame because it is readily available. Horror stories that "prove" the lie can always, always be traced to irresponsibility or neglect on the part of the patient who then decries his/her own inability to "get healthcare" when in fact they could have had it at any time. I'll tell you a story.

A Nigerian government official visited Kansas City several years ago in conjunction with the Sister Cities program. After being shown the typical glowing shrines and great icons of an American city, she was asked what she would like to see next. She said, "Show me your poor." So they arranged an auto tour of east KC, which some have said could give east LA a run for its money. Yet, when completed, she said of the tour, "You didn't show me your poor." The city officials assured her they had. Her response: "Every driveway had a car in it. Every child I saw had a coat, they had toys, they lived within walking distance of a school. Yes, I saw drug dealers on the corners and abandoned homes. But that isn't from lack of income. That is from lack of personal responsibility. I can only conclude you have no poor."

By her standards, she was absolutely right. We don't have "poor" in this country. They could be called "disadvantage" but most of that is because of their own lack of work ethic. We have raised six generations of "welfare babies" in this country, and the current generation believes they are owed a living without holding a job, an education without studying and now medical care without responsibility to pay. Yet there are those among them who have refused to buy into the system. They have refused to seek the government for sustenance, support or handouts. They have made it on their own, getting Ivy League educations and building dynamic businesses they employ people who actually want to work. Most of these have turned their backs on the system from which they came and challenged their people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps as they did, even establishing foundations that will help them do so if they choose.

Jesse Jackson attempted to do that. His message was one of a self-reliant, bootstrap mentality. He was telling Chicago youth the system didn't work, and never would. He challenged them to prove themselves instead of letting others care for them. That didn't sit well with the Chicago political machine. They are, after all, Democrats. Democrats built the system under Kennedy, Johnson and Carter. Democrats depend on the votes the system generates for them. No one is going to bite the hand that feeds them, afterall.

So they co-opted Jesse. They offered him a seat at the table, whispered sweet nothings in his ear, planted dreams of the Senate and the White House in his mind. But once they had him, they muzzled him. The Rainbow Coalition died a quiet and uneventful death. With died the real hope of the welfare generations.

You think you have paradise in Sweden. You have a docile, unmotivated general population with some success stories of free enterprise and riches to make you think you have a good thing. You don't.

You are just a more upscale ghetto than we do.
I was so saddened to our recent trip to San Diego, where you have people sleeping in the streets...like, all over the place.
[/QUOTE]
I am sorry, but I do find it a bit disconcerting (and quite amusing) to witness how you can in such a convinced manner and with such strong convictions describe for me, what life is actually like living in the country and society of Sweden. I have been living there for 22 years. We own a home worth $500,000, drive an Audi and have 6 and a half weeks of vacation to travel for...we have had great experiences of child care, health care, the education system and much else. We belong to the middle class, as do the majority of Swedes. We pay high taxes that enable EVERYONE the basic social entitlements that people living in a country of such wealth should be able to be provided with. But again, I want to thank you for giving me insight into just how good it is in USA and how bad things are in Sweden. Quite frankly, I was not aware of that...must have missed in somewhere along the line...the last 22 years of my life. Sometimes, a person's inability to take in information...well, you just wouldn't believe it.
 
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Publius

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Almighty's humble servant said:
However, the brother asked me to search out Scripture for him. That's not why i am here. ;)

I never asked you to "search out scripture" for me. You made a claim and I just asked you how you came to the conclusion you did.

You weren't able to back up your claim so I just decided it's a waste of time to respond to somebody who says things they can't back up.
 
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IisJustMe

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ameriswede said:
I am sorry, but I do find it a bit disconcerting (and quite amusing) to witness how you can in such a convinced manner and with such strong convictions describe for me, what life is actually like living in the country and society of Sweden. I have been living there for 22 years. We own a home worth $500,000, drive an Audi and have 6 and a half weeks of vacation to travel for...we have had great experiences of child care, health care, the education system and much else. We belong to the middle class, as do the majority of Swedes. We pay high taxes that enable EVERYONE the basic social entitlements that people living in a country of such wealth should be able to be provided with. But again, I want to thank you for giving me insight into just how good it is in USA and how bad things are in Sweden. Quite frankly, I was not aware of that...must have missed in somewhere along the line...the last 22 years of my life. Sometimes, a person's inability to take in information...well, you just wouldn't believe it.
You're welcome. :thumbsup:
 
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