You did not chose Me, I chose you.

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
— Philippians 3:8-9

aiki · Jan 5, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
if you follow s101 you are in trouble and confused.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I think the very same thing about Calvinists.

jimmyjimmy · Jan 5, 2020

Hammster said:
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
— Philippians 3:8-9

It's shocking how many miss this, yet it's Christianity 101.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 5, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
This is also false. God is not a spectator.

And your comment is not Scripture.
1 Peter 1:1-2 says God elects according to His foreknowledge.
This means His election is not unconditional.
In fact, we see in Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 of an example of God electing to reprobation according to His foreknowledge. God knew that there were certain people who were going to worship the beast, and as a result of God's foreknowledge of this fact, God made sure their names were never written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Which implies that they are an exception to the rule; Meaning, every person's name is originally in the Lamb's book of life - because babies who die and go to Heaven are saved because they are innocent and unaware of the Law so as to break it). Granted, the baby's physical body is under the curse of sin or the curse of Adam and it can die.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 5, 2020

jimmyjimmy said:
It's shocking how many miss this, yet it's Christianity 101.

Philippians 3:8-9 is referring to how we are saved by Justification (Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation by God's grace through faith in Christ) and we are not saved by Law Alone Salvationism under the Law of Moses. Paul was not referring to the word "Law" as in reference to the Law of Christ. Acts 13:39 says,

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Paul says a few verses up in Philippians 3,

"Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." (Philippians 3:6).

What Law was Paul following as Saul before he became a Christian?
The Law of Christ or the Law of Moses?

The 613 Laws of Moses.
Paul was not referring to the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), and he was not referring to the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), and he was not referring to the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25).

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says that God resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble.

Paul says that we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16);
And the author of Hebrews says that without following after holiness, no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

So one has to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not just those verses that sound more comforting to us. Jesus said narrow is the way, and few be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). Most today believe in a form of Easy Believism or a Sin and Still Be Saved (on some level) type view of Soteriology. Surely this is not the narrow way; Especially when John the baptist and Jesus condemned the Belief Alone-ism of the Pharisees (See: Matthew 3:8-9, and John 8:39) (Note: Hover your mouse over these verses to check them out).

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Philippians 3:8-9 is referring to how we are saved by Justification (Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation by God's grace through faith in Christ) and we are not saved by Law Alone Salvationism under the Law of Moses. Paul was not referring to the word "Law" as in reference to the Law of Christ. Acts 13:39 says,

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Paul says a few verses up in Philippians 3,

"Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." (Philippians 3:6).

What Law was Paul following as Saul before he became a Christian?
The Law of Christ or the Law of Moses?

The 613 Laws of Moses.
Paul was not referring to the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), and he was not referring to the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), and he was not referring to the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25).

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says that God resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble.

Paul says that we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16);
And the author of Hebrews says that without following after holiness, no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

So one has to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not just those verses that sound more comforting to us. Jesus said narrow is the way, and few be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). Most today believe in a form of Easy Believism or a Sin and Still Be Saved (on some level) type view of Soteriology. Surely this is not the narrow way; Especially when John the baptist and Jesus condemned the Belief Alone-ism of the Pharisees (See: Matthew 3:8-9, and John 8:39) (Note: Hover your mouse over these verses to check them out).

Actually, your view isn’t the narrow way. The narrow way is Christ alone. Total Dependency.

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

jimmyjimmy said:
It's shocking how many miss this, yet it's Christianity 101.

And as you can see, there’s a great desire by some to deconstruct this very passage.

jimmyjimmy · Jan 5, 2020

Hammster said:
And as you can see, there’s a great desire by some to deconstruct this very passage.

It's heartbreaking.

Mark Quayle · Jan 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Oh, man! How much more in error could you be??? Don't you know what Jude 1:4 says? Because that is what he was speaking against!

Don't you know that the old testament was our schoolmaster. It taught us about how God thinks. And yes, it is there that we are taught the difference between unintentional trespasses unwittingly committed, and rebellious sins against God's Ten Commandments. Did you know that there were no sacrifices that covered the sins of someone who broke those laws - they put them to DEATH. But there was sacrifice for unintentional sins.

I don't know what religious "traditions" I hold. Your tradition of we are forgiven on day one of past, present and future sins is not even in the Bible. That is where you got that tradition. We are only forgiven of our past sins when we come to Christ, and He then gives us the power to no longer commit willful sins of lawlessness.

I know about the law concerning unintentional sins vs intentional. Is unintentional not disobedience, and therefore worthy of death? Is a person who treats other humans (perhaps their own neighbor) as dirt by habit and choleric personality, excused of failure to "love [their] neighbor as themself" because their conscience didn't bother them about it? I can just about guarantee that they stiffen their spine at times when the conscience dares to suggest their attitude is wrong.

I could claim that you are the one using grace as a licence for immorality, by claiming that any sins you commit are by definition "unintentional" since they were committed after regeneration. BTW, did you know there is a reason for the statement, "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse."?

Your gospel glorifies man as the motivator, the prime chooser in his salvation and subsequent obedience, endowed with the integrity and ability the Bible only ascribes to God himself.

CharismaticLady · Jan 5, 2020

Hammster said:
So then you are a wicked sinner like the rest of us, and have sin that needs mortification.

See, if you sin, like you just admitted to, then you can’t stay sinless because you never were sinless. When you don’t forgive, it’s because of pride. You buy into Satan’s greatest lie, “Did God really say?”

Have you grown in grace and truth through the years? I’m sure you have. But it would behoove you to say that you sin less, but not that you are sinless, because that’s not true.

I knew you were trying to set me up, and I was right, just to call me a 'sinner,' and a wicked one at that.

That's okay, I know the Reformed don't know any better.

No, I am not a sinner; I am a child of God. There is a big difference. So are you really a slave of sin, and still a "wicked" sinner? Or are you a child of God, and with the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, do you keep yourself pure? Do you succumb to temptation, or do you resist temptation no it longer let it draw you in?

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:1-9
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

CharismaticLady · Jan 5, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
Is unintentional not disobedience, and therefore worthy of death?

No, disobedience is outright intentional. God sees the difference, even if you don't.

Mark Quayle said:
Is a person who treats other humans (perhaps their own neighbor) as dirt by habit and choleric personality, excused of failure to "love [their] neighbor as themself" because their conscience didn't bother them about it? I can just about guarantee that they stiffen their spine at times when the conscience dares to suggest their attitude is wrong.

That is all intentional. They have the same nature they were born with - carnal.

Mark Quayle said:
I could claim that you are the one using grace as a licence for immorality, by claiming that any sins you commit are by definition "unintentional" since they were committed after regeneration. BTW, did you know there is a reason for the statement, "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse."?

If you commit intentional sin a after 'regeneration' (I call filled with the Holy Spirit), and believe it is unintentional, that is still a sin unto death, and you would be lying to yourself. Question: What do you do after regeneration with sin you've committed intentionally? You say it is already forgiven. Is Jesus your Advocate for such sins, and you go on committing them?

Mark Quayle said:
Your gospel glorifies man as the motivator, the prime chooser in his salvation and subsequent obedience, endowed with the integrity and ability the Bible only ascribes to God himself.

That is just it, Mark. It IS God Himself, in me that has no desire to succumb to temptation. I am not a sinner; I have been born of God and am His child.

Mark Quayle · Jan 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
If you commit intentional sin a after 'regeneration' (I call filled with the Holy Spirit), and believe it is unintentional, that is still a sin unto death, and you would be lying to yourself. Question: What do you do after regeneration with sin you've committed intentionally? You say it is already forgiven. Is Jesus your Advocate for such sins, and you go on committing them?

"What then? Shall we sin, that grace may abound?" (No, but we do and it does!)
"If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven us our sin."

If after regeneration you sin, you must find yourself relegating it to the category of "unintentional sin". Do you never repeat the same sin? --let's say, perhaps, a little white lie. If you repeat a sin from which you have already repented, what can you say about yourself?

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
I knew you were trying to set me up, and I was right, just to call me a 'sinner,' and a wicked one at that.

That's okay, I know the Reformed don't know any better.

No, I am not a sinner; I am a child of God. There is a big difference. So are you really a slave of sin, and still a "wicked" sinner? Or are you a child of God, and with the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, do you keep yourself pure? Do you succumb to temptation, or do you resist temptation no it longer let it draw you in?

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:1-9
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Then you are doomed because you admit that you sin.

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

I’ll stand with Paul.

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
— 1 Timothy 1:15

CharismaticLady · Jan 5, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
"What then? Shall we sin, that grace may abound?" (No, but we do and it does!)
"If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven us our sin."

The truth is screaming from pain. Can you twist it any further???

CharismaticLady · Jan 5, 2020

Hammster said:
Then you are doomed because you admit that you sin.

I'm so glad that you are not God. The Word of God teaches a very different gospel than yours, but you don't understand a word of it.

As Jesus said of the age of the Reformation "you have a reputation that you are alive, but you are dead."

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
I'm so glad that you are not God. The Word of God teaches a very different gospel than yours, but you don't understand a word of it.

I preach the grace that Paul preached, not the a legalism that you proclaim.

CharismaticLady · Jan 5, 2020

Hammster said:
I preach the grace that Paul preached, not the a legalism that you proclaim.

Wake up! You only think you do!

2 Peter 3:
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

cc: @Mark Quayle

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Wake up! You only think you do!

2 Peter 3:
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

cc: @Mark Quayle

I guess you should stop twisting. You place burdens on people that Jesus removes.

Hammster · Jan 5, 2020

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
— Romans 8:1

You did not chose Me, I chose you.

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