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you claim your god is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and all-good

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hairykid34

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is the Christian god all powerful and all knowing?
and if it is, does it have the power to travel through time and alter/predict events?
and if it does, why, if it is all good, why does it let those who would sin and go against his word (in a possible future) be conceived instead of only letting those who would grow up to be "good Christians" be conceived?

This seems to be a paradox that can only be resolved by the nonexistence of any god that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and all-good.
If you have an argument against this lets hear it.
 

Steffenfield

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Your answer is yes.

God is all powerful and all knowing.

Everything will work out in the end, even for us Christians that continue to sin like me. :)

About your time travel question, don't be weird. *lol*

He's been everywhere, from beginning to end. That's why He is so perfect and wonderfully lovable. :)

I still fear the world about Him, but at least I have Jesus to think that He's full of absolute love. :love2:
 
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tsam543

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Our God, as most Christians believe, is all powerful (Jeremiah 32:17), all knowing (Psalms 147:5), and everywhere at all times (Jeremiah 23:23-24).
Our God has always been and is unchanging (Exodus 3:14, Revelations 22:13, Hebrews, 13:8). That is what most of us believe about our God. I'm sure that being everywhere at all times includes past, present, and future. He just exists. And he is in control of everything. (Romans 9:17, Daniel 2:19-22, Mark 4:41). I hope that answers your first two questions hairykid34.
To best answer your next question, I think it best to do it as a narrative.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He created and filled all these things in 6 days, according to the Bible, and whether or not it was a literal or figurative 6 days is up for debate even amongst the Christians. On the sixth day, God created man in His own image and set him to rule over all the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, and the beasts of the land. He gave to man the use of all seed-bearing plants and every tree with fruit on it. His only command was to not eat of the tree in the centre of the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or they would surely die. The first two people were Adam and Eve.
At this time, the Lord walked in the garden with them and was in fellowship with Adam and Eve. He had a relationship with them, and everything was good. But a serpent came along, and tricked, or conned, Adam and Eve into eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Though they were tricked, Adam and Eve still chose to believe the serpent's trick over the command of God, and this is how sin entered the world. Through that one choice, Adam and Eve broke their fellowship, their relationship with God, and God was forced to punish them and kick them out of the garden. Because God is all just and good, he cannot tolerate sin. That was the reason for the punishment. Since that first choice, God had a plan to reconcile man to himself, a plan to repair the broken relationship that Adam and Eve created, to restore fellowship with man. That plan was Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, to die on a cross, taking upon himself the sins of the world, and defeating death by rising again on the third day. Since that day, by God's power and not our own, any person who calls on the name of Jesus has been given the right to become children of God, reconciled back to God so that he can have a relationship with us. Though this is all just back story to the answer, and whether you believe the narrative or not, the story is important to understanding the answer.
God wanted to fix the relationship. God wants to have a relationship with us. He wants us to love Him. He extended his hand first, waiting for us to reach back. He didn't need to fix the relationship. According to logic, fairness, and justice, we deserve death for disobeying God. But God, instead, because of his love, chose to fix the problem. He gave us a choice in the beginning with the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and he's giving us a choice now. Without a choice of God or death, true love from us cannot exist. If we were forced to love God, then that's not real love, more like servitude, being paid to wait on Him, do His laundry and clean His house. Because of that choice, God let's us choose our own actions, choose which path we will take. But the choice is God or death. I don't want to choose death.

I hope this is a satisfying argument and answers your question of a paradox. If you weren't genuinely asking for an answer, i gave a genuine answer anyway. Feel free to ask more questions. There are lots of us Christians on her willing to give you answers if you do.
 
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.Iona.

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is the Christian god all powerful and all knowing?

Yes.

and if it is, does it have the power to travel through time and alter/predict events?

Of course He has the power to, but why would He? We all have the choice to how we live, and the events that happen are down to human error - why should we expect |God to chase after us fixing everything?

and if it does, why, if it is all good, why does it let those who would sin and go against his word (in a possible future) be conceived instead of only letting those who would grow up to be "good Christians" be conceived?

Because, people will all be judged. He didn't create us to control us and order us around - he gave us free will. People can change, and God wants to allow people to have that choice.

This seems to be a paradox that can only be resolved by the nonexistence of any god that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and all-good.
If you have an argument against this lets hear it.

Why? Many people compare God to a father - my father doesn't control my life. He lets me make my own mistakes, but will be there is I need advice, help or guidance. And, so is God. He allows me to go out into the world and make my own decisions. If I fail, I will be judged on that, but the goodness is in Him allowing me to be free and make my own mistakes - knowing that throughout it all He will be there.
 
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AlexBP

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is the Christian god all powerful and all knowing?
and if it is, does it have the power to travel through time and alter/predict events?
and if it does, why, if it is all good, why does it let those who would sin and go against his word (in a possible future) be conceived instead of only letting those who would grow up to be "good Christians" be conceived?

This seems to be a paradox that can only be resolved by the nonexistence of any god that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and all-good.
If you have an argument against this lets hear it.
As a metaphor for God's relationship to the world, consider a painter's relationship to a painting. The painter can see the entire painting, alter the painting at will, or throw out the entire painting and start a new one at any time. Most importantly, though, the painter conceives of the entire painting as a single work, a unity. Hence, any judgment of the painting is not a judgment of whether individual parts are good or bad, but rather of whether individual parts serve the greater unity.

Similarly, in the entirety of creation, each of us can only see a small part. We are severely limited in time and space. God sees the entirety of time and space and makes choices based on how the outcome will affect the entirety of creation. To an individual looking at a small corner of the cosmos these choices may not make sense.

Further, as Steffenfield pointed out, you're making a false dichotomy between "those who sin" and "good Christians". All sin, Christian or not.
 
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talitha

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hairykid, for me as a Christian, questions like yours of course do come up, and eventually they drive me to my knees. I must acknowledge that God is the one who sees it all, as Alex said so well, and I am not, and yield to Him. There are actually places in Scripture where people struggle and end up on their knees. I think we are supposed to struggle with this question, and we do because something in us knows that it is true, and yet experience doesn't seem to bear it out sometimes. That is the way God set up this life, so that we would come to Him for the answers.

blessings
tal
 
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GrowingSmaller

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is the Christian god all powerful and all knowing?
and if it is, does it have the power to travel through time and alter/predict events?
and if it does, why, if it is all good, why does it let those who would sin and go against his word (in a possible future) be conceived instead of only letting those who would grow up to be "good Christians" be conceived?

This seems to be a paradox that can only be resolved by the nonexistence of any god that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and all-good.
If you have an argument against this lets hear it.
Do you believe in the Big Bang theory, even though if pressed far enough it breaks down?
 
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Rao

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is the Christian god all powerful and all knowing?
and if it is, does it have the power to travel through time and alter/predict events?
and if it does, why, if it is all good, why does it let those who would sin and go against his word (in a possible future) be conceived instead of only letting those who would grow up to be "good Christians" be conceived?

Because it is good to do so.

If it is hard to understand that (it is for me at least), it is because we are not completely good.
 
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jonmichael818

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Because, people will all be judged. He didn't create us to control us and order us around - he gave us free will. People can change, and God wants to allow people to have that choice.

Why? Many people compare God to a father - my father doesn't control my life. He lets me make my own mistakes, but will be there is I need advice, help or guidance. And, so is God. He allows me to go out into the world and make my own decisions. If I fail, I will be judged on that, but the goodness is in Him allowing me to be free and make my own mistakes - knowing that throughout it all He will be there.
If God is omniscient, then he knows every series of events that will take place. If any single event happens any different than that which he knew, than he is not omniscient. If God is omniscient, then every single event that he knows is going to happen(which also means every event) must by definition and by necessity take place. Because if they did not take place, then he is not omniscient. And since every event must take place just as he must know they will take place, this prevents any other agent from being able to deter from that which he knows will take place. Which means that free will would not exist.
 
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jonmichael818

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In your atheistic worldview is the presence of sin in a world where the omnipotent, omniscient, omni-present Christian God rules illogical to you?
Although I do not consider my self to be an atheist but rather agnostic, I will try and answer your question.

First, I think it depends on how you view the idea of sin. Is sin the result of free will, and if so, how do you define free will?

-Omniscient: again depends on your views of free will.

-Omnipotent: Can your god create a rock so big that he cannot lift it?

-Omnipresent: In physics there are theories that suggest timetravel, extra demensional planes of existence etc., and there is the idea that time itself is just a concept that emerges as a result of the human mind but may not be a fundamental aspect of reality. So while it may be highly improbable to be omnipresent it may be possible in theory, but that is pure speculation. I think it may turn out to be impossible
 
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Rick B

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How do you know sin is a result of freewill?
How do you know omniscience depends on freewill?
Omnipresence; You present "theories", "suggestions", "ideas", "concepts", "may nots", "mays", "highly improbables", "possibles", "speculations", "I think", impossible". You KNOW nothing here. On what do you base your knowledge or lack thereof?
 
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jonmichael818

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How do you know sin is a result of freewill?
I don't know. I was just asking what your view on sin is, and that it may have issues with the idea od free will.
How do you know omniscience depends on freewill?
Because depending on your definition of free will, god is either omniscient and free will does not exist or god is not omniscient and free will does exist (at least as it applies to god.) FYI I am a determinist which means I do not believe free will exists.
Omnipresence; You present "theories", "suggestions", "ideas", "concepts", "may nots", "mays", "highly improbables", "possibles", "speculations", "I think", impossible". You KNOW nothing here. On what do you base your knowledge or lack thereof?
Precisely.:)
I do not know if any of what I presented is possible, I merely offered suggestions.
It's ok to say I don't know, but I will defend certain ideas because they seem more logical, that does not mean I know that said ideas are actual possibilities.

What is your viewpoint on how man is able to sin?
How do you define free will?
These will help me in answering your questions.
 
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tsam543

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I hope you don't mind me cutting into on the discussion. I cannot claim to know every answer to every question out there regarding God. I think that the more questions we ask, the more the answers lead to even more questions. It's not possible for us to know everything about an indescribable, immeasurable God. Those mysteries we don't have answers for should just leave us awestruck and lead us to worship this God. But i would still like to try and answer your questions in a way that i have come to terms with the questions, jonmichael818

What is your viewpoint on how man is able to sin?
How do you define free will?
These will help me in answering your questions.

I think free will does exist, or at least the freedom of choice, and our choices ultimately can lead us into sin.
Freewill is the ability to freely choose what I want to do. For example: Do I want to wear a yellow shirt, or a blue shirt? Do I want to sleep in today, or wake up at 7 AM.
 
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Gracchus

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If I have free will, that means I have the power of choice. That means that God has at least ceded that power to me, thus he does not have the power to decide for me, thus God is not omnipotent.
So, either God is not omnipotent or I do not have free will. Q.E.D.

And if everyone has free will then God has ceded a lot of power to us. If everyone acts in his own selfish interests we will be continually at cross purposes, and there will be chaos.

Oh! Wait...! That's called a "free market".

:wave:
 
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Rick B

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jonmichael818-You class yourself as an agnostic(from the greek for ignorant, without knowledge). Generally agnostics claim to have no certain knowledge about the existence of God, stating that there isn't enough scientific/empirical evidence for anyone to know for sure. Yet in your profile you claim to have been a Christian for 25 years including having been baptized. A logical fallacy. You cannot be both an agnostic and Christian. As an agnostic you base your uncertain knowledge on science, reason and logic. There is sufficient evidence that God exists yet you don't know. You have the ability to reason rationally that life cannot just spontaneously occur from non-life by chance over time, yet you say you don't know for sure. As an agnostic you cannot base your worldview on logic either for you say you are a Christian and agnostic, a believer yet unbeliever, you don't know for certain that God exists and believe that God exists at the same time. A self-refuting, direct violation of the second law of logic(non-contradiction). Your self-deceptive worldview self-destructs under its own self-refuting absurdity. The Jesus, in whose name you were baptized said "He that is not with Me is against Me..."(Matt. 12:30) Time to get off the fence and decide (from your free-will) whom you will (logically) serve.
After the "Fall" man sins(violates God's law) because he is, by nature, a sinner and rebel against a Holy God. He continually seeks to be autonomous, free from the constraints of his rightful Ruler and Master.
Freewill is not the ability to do anything contrary to your nature. God is not even free to do this. For example: God cannot lie. Unregenerate man has freewill in the same sense-he freely chooses according to his nature. That nature, however, is a sinful nature - unwilling and unable to come to God nor does he willingly desire to please God in any way. "No man can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day"(John 6:44) If you are unwilling and therefore unable you need, once again, to read John 3:36-"He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him". Either/or. "A" cannot be "non-A" at the same time, in the same way. A universal, abstract, transcendent, non-physical, absolute, immutable, certain law of logic/reason.
 
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