You can't go to heaven if you don't believe this!!!

[LJSGM]

I don't really see the thief as a comforter. More of a supplicant.

It would have been comforting though.

 

[LJSGM]

Anyone ever heard of Ray comfort's, hell's best kept secret?

here's a link to it.

http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml

 

[Fireinfolding]

paradise from the strong's

1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
5) heaven

Some believe what Jesus meant was "today you will be with me in the ground (garden)" meaning that the man was actually mocking Jesus, and this was Jesus' reply. For scriptures do say that Jesus had NO comforters. What do you all think of this?

Unless it was a momentary thing cause both are shown casting in the same here.

Mat 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

What a weird way to word that huh?

 

[Gukkor]

When I read what Joyce Meyer said, it seemed to me like she said that not believing Jesus died on the cross was punishable, not necessarily the unbelief in Him going to hell.

If she did (or does) mean the latter, then her doctrine (according to scripture) is off. And, wasn't all of our doctrine off a little at one time or another?

Indeed, and still is. Everyone's wrong about something.

 

[jiminpa]

The ellipses indicate parts of the quotes that are left out. While it is normally acceptable to edit quotations to conserve space and typing, that is not likely what is happening here. At least one of your sources, and I suspect all of them, can't be trusted to accurately quote a victim, and they don't make the full quotation available to verify context. I suspect that that is because the context doesn't support their criticism.

I don't expect to convince the staunchest heresy hunters here, but those who are interested in deciding for themselves can consider the likelihood that those are misquotes and hatchet jobs.

 

[synger]

From what I've seen (on some of the pages linked above, and on this one), it seems she's espousing heterodox doctrine about Jesus' three-day stay in hell. The Scriptures just don't tell us much detail about it, except that it happened.

At least I have enough information now that I could find her book and look up for myself what she says if I cared to.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

At times I find it hard to swallow back a grimace of contempt. 'Do not place your faith in God, else you may be sent to the Fire'.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

The ellipses indicate parts of the quotes that are left out. While it is normally acceptable to edit quotations to conserve space and typing, that is not likely what is happening here. At least one of your sources, and I suspect all of them, can't be trusted to accurately quote a victim, and they don't make the full quotation available to verify context. I suspect that that is because the context doesn't support their criticism.

I don't expect to convince the staunchest heresy hunters here, but those who are interested in deciding for themselves can consider the likelihood that those are misquotes and hatchet jobs.

You're not showing that any hatchet job was done just that it is possible that it was a hatchet job.

I've heard the tape where she says Jesus suffered in hell tormented by demons till God said, Enough! she also writes: [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]"There is no chance of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell." (Underline added) Joyce Meyers

That is a direct quote.
[/FONT]

 

[JWNEWMAN]

At times I find it hard to swallow back a grimace of contempt. 'Do not place your faith in God, else you may be sent to the Fire'.

So far I think everything you've said has gone about 3 feet (or more) over my head. I guess you're making sense. But it's not making sense to me.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Theres much worse hatchet jobs JWNEWMAN, not just single statements but bundled up hatchet jobs so boundup in error all attempts to untangle them must need become ones career

 

[dayknee]

Joyce Meyers is an idiot if she believes Jesus spent three days in hell. It isnt biblical. People need to start reading their bibles and doing research on their own.
Why can't christians get it thru their head.
Believe who Jesus said he was (God) and what he did (died on the cross for your sins..all of them..past , present and future)
Makes me sad to think that people who are professed Christians would buy into such a gimmick as Joyce Meyers. I would definitely question her salvation..if she believes that the only way we get to heaven is having to make sure we also believe that Jesus spent 3 days in hell. I don't understand how people get sucked up into this stuff.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=260772221

I found this examination of some of Meyers' teaching which also has audio clips. You can hear Joyce herself say some of the things I've recounted.

 

[jiminpa]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=260772221

I found this examination of some of Meyers' teaching which also has audio clips. You can hear Joyce herself say some of the things I've recounted.

not going to give them my email address to hear the clip. It may be legit. I do know that one of your reference sources does habitually misquote Christians when they don't tow the line, as defined by them.

I still don't see how this questionable doctrine disqualifies the rest of her teaching. I don't see where it is a an explicit contradiction to scripture.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

not going to give them my email address to hear the clip. It may be legit. I do know that one of your reference sources does habitually misquote Christians when they don't tow the line, as defined by them.

I still don't see how this questionable doctrine disqualifies the rest of her teaching. I don't see where it is a an explicit contradiction to scripture.

You don't have to give them your email address just click on the file you want and it'll start playing or download. I didn't give them my address.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

not going to give them my email address to hear the clip. It may be legit. I do know that one of your reference sources does habitually misquote Christians when they don't tow the line, as defined by them.

I still don't see how this questionable doctrine disqualifies the rest of her teaching. I don't see where it is a an explicit contradiction to scripture.

She is saying that YOU CAN'T ENTER HEAVEN UNLESS YOU BELIEVE JESUS SUFFERED FOR YOU IN HELL that is not what scripture teaches in fact it negates the work of the cross and the blood.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Personally, if it doesn't line up with scripture, adds to or takes away from scripture I really don't want to have a part of it. That's the yardstick I hope applies to all my belief's. Revelation that contradicts plain scriptural teaching must be discarded, even if got in a vision; or the scripture it contradicts must be discarded. Can't have it both ways, can we?

 

[Fireinfolding]

She is saying that YOU CAN'T ENTER HEAVEN UNLESS YOU BELIEVE JESUS SUFFERED FOR YOU IN HELL that is not what scripture teaches in fact it negates the work of the cross and the blood.

Who was hell beneathe moved for JWNEWMAN?

Isaiah 14:9 HELL from BENEATH ~is moved~ FOR THEE to MEET THEE at THY COMING: IT stirreth up THE DEAD FOR THEE, ***EVEN*** ALL the CHEIF ONES OF THE EARTH; it hath raised up from their thrones ALL THE KINGS OF THE NATIONS.

Whats interesting is have you ever notice the parallel of the location as highlighted in red?

 

[Gukkor]

I think some of you guys are blowing this a bit out of proportion. So she has an unorthodox belief about salvation. And? Does it affect you at all? If you are secure in your beliefs, it shouldn't. If, on the other hand, you are inclined to believe her, than by all means, do so. Either way, you are responsible for your beliefs, not her. The same goes for everyone.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Who was hell beneathe moved for JWNEWMAN?

Isaiah 14:9 HELL from BENEATH ~is moved~ FOR THEE to MEET THEE at THY COMING: IT stirreth up THE DEAD FOR THEE, ***EVEN*** ALL the CHEIF ONES OF THE EARTH; it hath raised up from their thrones ALL THE KINGS OF THE NATIONS.

Whats interesting is have you ever notice the parallel of the location as highlighted in red?

Which hell are we talking about Gehenna or the lake of fire where the demons are sent?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Which hell are we talking about Gehenna or the lake of fire where the demons are sent?

The above verse is shĕ'owl.

In the verse it speaks of "the dead" (right there) but it parallels shĕ'owl to "the kings of the earth".

If one earth (as John says) WE PASS from DEATH unto life (while physically living) WHERE is death if one can actually abide IN IT (after a spiritual truth) according to the apostle? Yet in regards to it it speaks to the state of the soul "one who LOVETH NOT (or HATETH) his brother" ABIDETH in death. So theres an abode of death (we can be in HERE) and the dead who abide IN IT are known by their fruit (hated). Which makes further sense on why the gates of death is regarded as the REALM of the DEAD and are shown as a THEM that HATE ME.

Theres tons of various verses that speak in accord with it. In fact the wicked themselves are shown as those TURNED INTO hell (word) shĕ'owl in Psalms 9:17 Its the same word wherein it shows shĕ'owl on equal playing feild on the earth, infact in that very verse it adresses the nations in this one as it does the other.