You can't be both.

[Tenebrae]

That's wonderful, and God bless you for that!




Why? You agree that abortion is something to be worked against.

I do agree that its a very emotional time for many women, and someone coming in and beating them over the head with the Bible or the Catechism is not at all productive. Absolutely a caring and compassionate approach needs to be taken. And its wonderful that you do that.

But the problem in this forum is Catholics espousing a firmly pro-choice opinion. That's simply contrary to church teachings. End of story. And, of course, many people do not know where the Catholic church stands on this issue. Not being Catholic and all. So when they see members who are pro-choice sporting a Catholic faith icon, they could wrongly think that the Catholic church is pro-choice or takes no stand on the issue. The church is clear.

I guess if a church is going to excommunicate me for being pro choice.


I totally oppose abortion, and I totally believe that it will royally screw over the women who have it done, either then or sometime down the track. However I can not in all good conscience call myself pro life. Because if a friend tells me that she has had an abortion or is considering having an abortion, is it more important for me to bang on about pro life values or give her room to cry and grieve or take the time to find out what this friend would need to consider not aborting the child.


Or is it more important that my friend knows that regardless of her choice that while I may not agree with the choice that she made, that she is still my friend and she can still come to me if she needs to.


Former Pro Domme, adulterer, thief drug addict and more

when I came to God, instead of rebuking me, telling me how bad and wrong all those things were He held me and gave me the room to grieve for those things that had lead to those decisions, and offered me a way out of that. How can I give any less to a woman who has had or is considering having an abortion. I would be willing to bet all nine of those women I mentioned earlier would have totally known that what they were considering was murder.


And in all honesty I have an aversion to being associated with the pro life crowd

 

[Avatar]

I guess if a church is going to excommunicate me for being pro choice.


I totally oppose abortion, and I totally believe that it will royally screw over the women who have it done, either then or sometime down the track. However I can not in all good conscience call myself pro life. Because if a friend tells me that she has had an abortion or is considering having an abortion, is it more important for me to bang on about pro life values or give her room to cry and grieve or take the time to find out what this friend would need to consider not aborting the child.


Or is it more important that my friend knows that regardless of her choice that while I may not agree with the choice that she made, that she is still my friend and she can still come to me if she needs to.

I completely agree.

Former Pro Domme, adulterer, thief drug addict and more

I'm 3/4 and a lot not on the list.

when I came to God, instead of rebuking me, telling me how bad and wrong all those things were He held me and gave me the room to grieve for those things that had lead to those decisions, and offered me a way out of that. How can I give any less to a woman who has had or is considering having an abortion. I would be willing to bet all nine of those women I mentioned earlier would have totally known that what they were considering was murder.

Agree

And in all honesty I have an aversion to being associated with the pro life crowd

Me too. There's some really hate-filled nutbags mixed in with the truly good people. And they get the media.

What I'm saying here is that in a debate forum one shouldn't be advocating a pro-choice position while claiming to be from a denomination that rejects that. The two don't go together. Again, I'm talking about debates here.

If you, in real life, are accepting of another's struggle and gently guide rather than push, that is wonderful. You have saved lives. I truly admire you.

Oy. I'm not being clear, can't find the words. It's too late - past bedtime.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I totally oppose abortion, and I totally believe that it will royally screw over the women who have it done, either then or sometime down the track.

And in all honesty I have an aversion to being associated with the pro life crowd

Welcome to the crowd.

 

[WarriorAngel]

It bears repeating.

In the last 12 months I had a direct impact on 4 women chosing to keep their child instead of abortion. There were another five mothers to be who several of us evil pro choice people had imput in the mothers either keeping the child or giving up the child for adoption.

Much more sucess than I ever had adopting a strictly pro life approach.


I was considering looking into the catholic church, I like the liturgical form of service. However if your church would excommunicate me for stopping abortion, than its not a church i want to be a part of to be honest

And as i said previously, you are doing the work of what you should do.

And that is what the Church wants us to do. Stop ppl, with compassion if needs be, from commiting the act.

I realise women are in an emotional turmoil, and in fact...by keeping the baby they are healing.
The consequences of having an abortion...usually weighs heavily on them.... and sometimes has dire consequences. A lifelong silent struggle that sometimes ends with suicide.

And to be fair, helping ppl see they will eventually be happy with the choice of keeping the baby or giving it up to a good home... makes this a very profound Christian act.

Ppl dont realise, unless they have had one, the absolute regret women face the rest of their lives.
And in good conscience we are in fact saving the mother as well as the baby.

Even athiest mother's for the most part have issues with doing this because the maternal link in them is very strong... and when we oppose our very natures by procuring an abortion, it is nothing but a lifetime of suffering.

The Church admonishes this act for both the child and mother. Because once a mom does this, she can never go back and undo it. And her emotional state remains marred.

If anyone else hasnt noticed... the majority of pro life advocates in this country now are those who did have an abortion, and desire strongly for the mother to not have that sort of pain they went thru. On a high level...it becomes in fact a deep caring for those who still have the chance to set things right.

I read this one time...... a woman was picketing an abortion march, and she held a sign that simply said 'I regret it.'

Some came up to her from the march and cried and said they did too. Some held their heads down. And some got angry but their eyes were in pain. And alot cried.

That's wonderful, and God bless you for that!




Why? You agree that abortion is something to be worked against.

I do agree that its a very emotional time for many women, and someone coming in and beating them over the head with the Bible or the Catechism is not at all productive. Absolutely a caring and compassionate approach needs to be taken. And its wonderful that you do that.

But the problem in this forum is Catholics espousing a firmly pro-choice opinion. That's simply contrary to church teachings. End of story. And, of course, many people do not know where the Catholic church stands on this issue. Not being Catholic and all. So when they see members who are pro-choice sporting a Catholic faith icon, they could wrongly think that the Catholic church is pro-choice or takes no stand on the issue. The church is clear.

Yes, this is true. The Church is against abortion.

It kills a child and it ruins the mother's emotional well being for the rest of her life.

Love...is doing something that is hard for Christ, for others.

 

[SolomonVII]

I totally oppose abortion.

You are pro-life then.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

Ppl dont realise, unless they have had one, the absolute regret women face the rest of their lives

Not every woman who has an abortion feels this way. There are lots women who are okay with their decision to have an abortion and say that they have no regrets about it.

 

[free2be]

Not every woman who has an abortion feels this way. There are lots women who are okay with their decision to have an abortion and say that they have no regrets about it.

....yet.

 

[SolomonVII]

Slightly over half of Christianity does NOT belong to the Roman Catholic Church, and could give a sweet lemon drop what its canon law has to say. Regardless of how they individually feel about the abortion issue.


Are you a part of that demographic too Polycarp? Are you too totally blasé as to what the Catholic Church teaches?

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

....yet.

Just because some women regret it doesn't mean that all of them will. It's not guaranteed. Some of the women who's stories I've heard had their abortions years ago, some before it was legal. Not everyone feels the same way about it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Just because some women regret it doesn't mean that all of them will. It's not guaranteed. Some of the women who's stories I've heard had their abortions years ago, some before it was legal. Not everyone feels the same way about it.

The majority do...and until a woman takes that plunge, no one knows how they will react or feel later.

Not to make an analogy that seems off the topic, because akin to the Church calling abortion murder, so is fornication...in a spiritual way. Leading to the after world death...

So just because a few prostitutes dont feel bad about what they do, does that make it acceptable?

What is interesting to note is ppl do not look at these things as tho thru the eyes of God.

Aborting a baby is like saying 'No thanks God, you made a mistake in blessing me with a child.'

And a child is a blessing, according to scriptures.
God also knows us before He forms us in the womb, also scriptural.

So where's the scriptural defense for abortions?

 

[Polycarp1]

Slightly over half of Christianity does NOT belong to the Roman Catholic Church, and could give a sweet lemon drop what its canon law has to say. Regardless of how they individually feel about the abortion issue.


Are you a part of that demographic too Polycarp? Are you too totally blasé as to what the Catholic Church teaches?

Fair question. I'm an Anglican -- a liturgical, Eucharistically-focused, "catholic" in the broad sense church in the apostolic succession, which nonetheless avoids laying down pontifical decrees and encourages personal growth in theology and spirituality. So my piety and theology owe a lot to Catholicism, and I learn a lot from it, but its teachings do not bind me. In addition, a sinful failing in myself -- what Robert does that comes across to me as self-righteous posturing tends to irritate me. (That's a criticism of myself, not of him.) That's part of the reason for my rather snarky post.

As far as the issues here are concerned, I'm opposed to most abortions, but even more opposed to laws that leave girls and women with no choice but to carry inside themselves something they did not want and often did not choose. If I may be permitted a comparison, consider the person with a close family member whose kidneys have failed -- he or she is the only possible organ donor. His/her moral choice may be clear, but I think it would be the height of paternalistic governmental meddling to pass laws saying someone in that circumstance must donate a kidney, or be found guilty of a crime.

And yes, I've paid attention to the arguments on both sides of the issue.

 

[BAFRIEND]

As far as the issues here are concerned, I'm opposed to most abortions, but even more opposed to laws that leave girls and women with no choice but to carry inside themselves something they did not want and often did not choose. If I may be permitted a comparison, consider the person with a close family member whose kidneys have failed -- he or she is the only possible organ donor. His/her moral choice may be clear, but I think it would be the height of paternalistic governmental meddling to pass laws saying someone in that circumstance must donate a kidney, or be found guilty of a crime.

The problem here is that a baby is not an organ. It is an independent life. A baby is not an appendix.

Getting pregnant is not akin to kidney failure. You know, not even one percent of abortions are due to rape so there was a choice involved there.

We expect our governments to protect and serve all their citizens. What an abortion does is takes the life of another person. no one has the right to do this. You are right, the government should not be allowed to take a kidney from someone... too bad you do not feel the same way about a person's life.

 

[SolomonVII]

Thanks for the reply. You never came across as a particularily anti-Catholci person before-that is why I was al little taken back by the tone.

But if it a peersonal thing between you and BAfriend, and not between you and a Catholic teaching, that is at least more consistent with the kind of person I think you are trying to be on these forums.

As far as Catholic teaching itself is concerned, there is no wiggle room at all when it comes to the clear teaching. Whatever our attitude to the law may be, a fetus is not comparable to a kidney, or any other organ for that matter. A fetus is bestowed with all the dignity and absolute worth of a human life. This is what the teaching is.
As far as the secular law goes, there can be differing viewpoints about the method which will be best in a lessening of evil, and whether or not criminalizing such a prevailing behavior is even possible at this point.

This is secondary however.

In terms of evangelization, it is most important at this point in time, from my point of view, to at least begin to foster the idea that it is a human life that we are dealing with, and that all human life is of infinite worth.
If everybody so believed, then only psychopaths would be engaging in such behavior, no matter what the law said.

 

[JoabAnias]

Exactly how I feel.
I don't think abortion is a great thing, but I am certainly in no place to tell a woman not to get it done.
And I supported because if its going to be done, it has to be done in as safe a manner as possible.
And history has proven that it can't be done when abortion is illegal, commited in back alleys with hangers, under no state supervision.

Those are myths.

Check out the truth.

Try the PriestforLife website or silentnomore.

 

[JoabAnias]

Show the American people what an abortion is!​

 

[Calliso]

Those are myths.

Check out the truth.

Try the PriestforLife website or silentnomore.

So are you saying these things did not happen at all? That all those women that say that had to give them selves an abortion or go to some quack docter to get one are just lying?

 

[WarriorAngel]

The ones who go to the quacks are few and far between.

But for all the cheering for safe conditions, one would really think they were safe.
FAR from it.

Many women died at the hands of 'safe' procedures.
Hemorreghing days after, and dying within days but because they didnt officially die at the abortion clinic, they arent counted as abortion induced deaths.

So the abortionists dont have to count them in their high numbers.

Safe? No.

Again, i see it no where in scriptures to commit abortions.
What did Christ say...'Weep for your children's children who say happy is the barren womb and the paps that dont give suck.'

Why weep for them?
Because the sin is grave.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Show the American people what an abortion is!​

Its not necessary to shout

We're not deaf

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The ones who go to the quacks are few and far between.

But for all the cheering for safe conditions, one would really think they were safe.
FAR from it.

Many women died at the hands of 'safe' procedures.
Hemorreghing days after, and dying within days but because they didnt officially die at the abortion clinic, they arent counted as abortion induced deaths.

So the abortionists dont have to count them in their high numbers.

Safe? No.

Again, i see it no where in scriptures to commit abortions.
What did Christ say...'Weep for your children's children who say happy is the barren womb and the paps that dont give suck.'

Why weep for them?
Because the sin is grave.

The ones who go to "quacks" are few and far between because abortion is legal in your country. In countries where abortion is illegal, women will go to "quacks" in far greater numbers, and die, in far greater numbers.

 

[JoabAnias]

Its not necessary to shout

We're not deaf

Hehe. Shouting would have been all caps. Thats just extreme prejudice.