You Are.. FIRED ... Protestants Can Do This

[Plan 9]

Historically speaking, the Church of England was not formed due to the Protestant Reformation. John Wesley was an Anglican minister in good standing for his entire life and had no intention whatsoever of starting a separate denomination; quite the reverse.
What happened was that he had promoted the formation of lay Bible societies called "Holy Clubs", who were served by itenerant lay preachers.
Members of the Holy clubs, both German and American, immigrated to America and somehow were transformed, especially in the Western frontier, into churchs. Eventually, after being begged repeatedly to come and help set up a church structure suitable for their survival and growth, Wesley threw in the towel.
Even then, he didn't entirely give up. He named the English speaking version the Methodist Episcopal Church ("Methodist" was originally a pejorative term).
The German speaking Methodists went through some changes and eventually were called the Evangelical United Brethren.
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At this point any Catholic (and many Protestants) would be thinking, "Where was the Episcopal Church when the converts of this enormous revival and Wesley needed them?" I haven't studied enough to know exactly what went wrong, but something sure did, or there would not be a United Methodist Church, as well as many other Methodist/Wesleyan denominations.
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As a result, Wesley is now stuck trying to set up two American Methodist churches (because of the language barrier) who have no church tradition, which Wesley deeply valued, to protect and guide them. They do have leaders in whom authority has already been invested by the congregants, and Wesley (in an informal way) and these leaders are the ones who have begged Wesley for help, essentially telling him that they've done as much as they can. And they have, too, they are the Methodist circuit riders, many of whom who traveled thousands of miles on horseback to scattered groups of Christians throughout the western frontier, also bringing nrew and mail.
What Wesley did was to make our church structure much like that of the United States Government, only in minuature, which Bishops at the head of the executive branch.
Bishops always have the final authority, but our lay people must be heavily involved in running their individual churches. Local ministers do. Every UMC congregation sends both lay and clerical delegates to vote once a year and we have "high" and "low" churches and some that fall in the middle somewhere.

Is that enough background for everyone? Questions? Refreshments?

 

[Filia Mariae]

Refreshments?

Whatcha got?

 

[Fiskare]

a) The real issue of contention with and within American methodism is the ordinations of Thomas Coke and Francis Asbury. Did John Wesley have no choice, or was his brother right in opposing the move? Basically it was an act of material, if not formal, schism from the Church of England, because John W was not a bishop himself and he acted without authority,although he claimed it was a necessity.

b) Regarding the firing of pastors, it's really about checks and balances, regardless of the denomination. For example, in a church with a confessional basis, the pastor is constrained to teach within those confessional boundaries, and thus it is more difficult to fire him if he is orthodox to his denomination, as there is an objective truth that the congregation must adhere to. On the other hand, in a denomination without a confessional basis, the pastor may be fired for a personality conflict or something similar. The point being: if checks and balances are in place, there is greater order and less injustice may occur regarding the treatment of pastors and their families. But, nothing is perfect.