You almost have to wonder if the Democratic Party is secretly trying to lose.

Desk trauma said:

Yeah, just like all the people cheering on Trump running the first time because it made Hillary a lock.

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Well, she did get more votes, so...

-- A2SG, had to say it....

A2SG said:

-- A2SG, I know you meant that ironically, but either one of them could bring some much needed change and leadership to the party...and the country....

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As has happened before, the left may very well get the nomination. They can't win a general election, but they could end up changing the leadership of the party after the mainstream of the party rebounds from the very trouncing a far-left candidate would bring to the Democratic Party. I think that there have been 3 such events in my memory. McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis are models of what can happen. The most states taken by any of these three was 10.

mark46 said:

As has happened before, the left may very well get the nomination. They can't win a general election, but they could end up changing the leadership of the party after the mainstream of the party rebounds from the very trouncing a far-left candidate would bring to the Democratic Party. I think that there have been 3 such events in my memory. McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis are models of what can happen. The most states taken by any of these three was 10.

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I'm not entirely sure if those candidate can be considered "far left," whatever that means these days. Certainly not Dukakis. As governor of Massachusetts, he's mostly known for being fiscally responsible but mostly hands-off regarding social issues.

But, that aside, what Bernie and AOC bring to the party is an emphasis on working class and labor issues, and that is a direction the party needs to go in. I don't agree with those who claim the party shouldn't address issues related to trans and LGBT people, since they need representation too, and they're certainly not gonna get it from the GOP. But bread and butter, working class issues need to be a stronger focus within the party, including promotion of legislation that supports workers and middle class Americans. Too much focus does go to headline-grabbing issues and feckless displays against Donald Trump, and less for actual governing and protection of the middle class and other people who work for a living. I think AOC especially understands these issues, and, perhaps with more experience in government, can one day become a real, strong force for working class people.

That's my hope, anyway.

-- A2SG, as I've often said, if there's one thing the Democratic party excels at, it's disappointing its members....

A2SG said:

I'm not entirely sure if those candidate can be considered "far left," whatever that means these days. Certainly not Dukakis. As governor of Massachusetts, he's mostly known for being fiscally responsible but mostly hands-off regarding social issues.

But, that aside, what Bernie and AOC bring to the party is an emphasis on working class and labor issues, and that is a direction the party needs to go in. I don't agree with those who claim the party shouldn't address issues related to trans and LGBT people, since they need representation too, and they're certainly not gonna get it from the GOP. But bread and butter, working class issues need to be a stronger focus within the party, including promotion of legislation that supports workers and middle class Americans. Too much focus does go to headline-grabbing issues and feckless displays against Donald Trump, and less for actual governing and protection of the middle class and other people who work for a living. I think AOC especially understands these issues, and, perhaps with more experience in government, can one day become a real, strong force for working class people.

That's my hope, anyway.

-- A2SG, as I've often said, if there's one thing the Democratic party excels at, it's disappointing its members....

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Yes, AOC and Sanders should try to move the party to putting working class issue front and center.

I don't they will move the party toward winning until the party makes a conscious choice to appeal to the voters as a whole rather than individual voter groups. Do you really think that the party will abandon trans athletes as a major issue? Will the party come close to reasonable positions on crime, immigration and the homeless?

Did Obama disappoint Democratic voters? Really? The Obama wing of the Democrat is disliked by the party leaders as much as Bush folk are disliked by Republicans. The party is losing large numbers of Hispanics and youth to the Republican Party. The left tells them (and us) that the answer is double down on their pet issues. They say the issue has been that candidates don't communicate well enough, obscuring the fact that it is the message that is the issue.
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BOTTOM LINE
Democrats continue to lose on the central issue of immigration, while winning a bit on Trump's clumsy implementation.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of who determines school curriculums.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of crime in our cities.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of trans athletes.
And Democrats even lose by wanting more rather than fewer government workers, even while winning a bit regarding implementation.
Democrats can't get traction on their best issues: climate, health care and support of science.

mark46 said:

Yes, AOC and Sanders should try to move the party to putting working class issue front and center.

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Agreed.

mark46 said:

I don't they will move the party toward winning until the party makes a conscious choice to appeal to the voters as a whole rather than individual voter groups. Do you really think that the party will abandon trans athletes as a major issue? Will the party come close to reasonable positions on crime, immigration and the homeless?

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I don't think the party should abandon trans or LGBT people at all, in sports or any other areas. But I also believe they need to broaden their focus and address (not just appeal to) actual, real world, issues facing working people.

They need to focus on governing, not soundbites.

mark46 said:

Did Obama disappoint Democratic voters? Really?

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In some ways, I believe he did. Look at what he calls his "signature legislative achievement," the ACA. It's a conservative, market-based plan straight from the Heritage Foundation, that strengthens the private for-profit health insurance industry. Sure, there are reforms within it that benefit people, but there are far better plans that could, and should, be considered to address the issues of health care availability in this country. Single payer, for one.

mark46 said:

The Obama wing of the Democrat is disliked by the party leaders as much as Bush folk are disliked by Republicans. The party is losing large numbers of Hispanics and youth to the Republican Party. The left tells them (and us) that the answer is double down on their pet issues. They say the issue has been that candidates don't communicate well enough, obscuring the fact that it is the message that is the issue.
========
BOTTOM LINE
Democrats continue to lose on the central issue of immigration, while winning a bit on Trump's clumsy implementation.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of who determines school curriculums.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of crime in our cities.
Democrats continue to lose on the issue of trans athletes.
And Democrats even lose by wanting more rather than fewer government workers, even while winning a bit regarding implementation.
Democrats can't get traction on their best issues: climate, health care and support of science.

Click to expand...

I think that Democrats need to focus on governing: actually accomplishing legislative goals rather than just prancing for the cameras. Sure, it won't be easy, so long as they remain the minority party...but by showing the public they're willing to actually do the work, rather than just say they're going to, could make a significant difference, and turn the tide come election season.

Basically, focus on governing. Let elections take care of themselves.

-- A2SG, it's a basic trust the voters idea....politicians tend to pay lip service to that, but balk at actually doing it....

A2SG said:

I don't think the party should abandon trans or LGBT people at all, in sports or any other areas. .

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No Democrats are abandoning LGBT rights in any way.

No Democrats are abandoning trans RIGHTS.

The only so-called rights being questioned are the right of trans men to compete against girls in women's-only sports.
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Democrats will continue to lose many, many, many votes if they continue to make championing these perhaps a dozen athletes as a key issue for them.