YHVH's relationship to Jews...

[Dave-W]

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:13–14)

Uh - no.

That says God is now accepting the uncircumcised; it does NOT say circumcision was abolished at the cross.

In Galatians Paul says that to be circumcised means one is obligated to keep the Law of Moses. And then he turns around in Acts 16 and Circ'd Timothy. (thus obligating Tim to the Law) If circ was abolished, why did Paul do that?

 

[Dave L]

Uh - no.

That says God is now accepting the uncircumcised; it does NOT say circumcision was abolished at the cross.

Any not circumcised were cut off from Israel. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. The only biblical Jew or member of Israel are believers in Christ.

 

[Adam Raffell]

Jesus is Torah made flesh.

He gave the Torah and He is the Torah. The Torah cannot be understood as 'another way' to God. If we take our Trinitarian theology seriously, Jesus was the One who gave it to the Jewish people in the first place! When all is said and done it's going to lead to Him, nowhere else.

God certainly hears (and answers) the prayers of the Jewish people. They are still His people and he loves them. I very much doubt that Jews will all 'convert' and become Christians, I believe they will discover Jesus is in their midst already, and that the foreign caricaturisation of 'Jesus' they rejected will need to be corrected for many (perhaps all) Christians too.

That's why Paul could say with certainty of those he moments before defined as "enemies of the gospel", "...all Israel will be saved". Paul concludes his explanation of the mystery that we've all been disobedient, there's no hierarchy here between Christians (Gentiles) and Jews, just the bottom line about the good news of Jesus Christ and God's sovereign decision to show mercy:

"Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Rom 11:30-32) How amazing!!!! (cf. v33ff doxology...)

 

[Dave-W]

Any not circumcised were cut off from Israel. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. The only biblical Jew or member of Israel are believers in Christ.

Now you are just repeating what you have been taught, based on a few verses here and there.

That does not hold up to a close reading of ALL scripture.

 

[Dave L]

Now you are just repeating what you have been taught, based on a few verses here and there.

That does not hold up to a close reading of ALL scripture.

The Jews are a religion. not a family or race. Even those related to Isaac were excommunicated to gentile status if not circumcised. Jesus did away with circumcision = all Jews are gentiles by default.

 

[Dave-W]

The Jews are a religion. not a family or race.

It is both a family AND a religion.

Everyone who was raised Jewish or involved in the Messianic movement knows that.

Under the New Covenant there are unique callings and obligations on Jewish believers in Yeshua/Jesus that are not incumbent on gentile Christians.

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus did away with circumcision

You keep saying that. You have yet to prove it.

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

I am going to place this here as a reminder, several posts are straying VERY close to SOP violations, and could be actionable. I would advise all of us to review these, especially the parts I have bolded and made red.
​

We believe:

• First and foremost that Yeshua is the promised Messiah to Israel and to the nations.
• Messianic Judaism is a sect of Judaism that is the fulfillment of the Jewish Scriptures.
• The books of the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) are ordained by G-d to be His word to us.
• Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles believe the Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept, elucidated, and taught.
• Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
• Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are equal in Messiah on this forum and are permitted to observe Torah without condemnation.
• MJs and MGs keep Torah for the love of G-d and to practice sanctified living, not for salvation.

>>>These beliefs must be respected by all posters<<<
Posts against these beliefs, or with the following content, will be actioned by staff.

Non-negotiable points:

• No anti-missionary/counter-missionary posts or teachings against the New Covenant books or against Yeshua as Messiah**
• No replacement theology. No posts teaching or debating that the Church/Christians have replaced Israel or the Jewish people.
  
• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Rachel Rachel]

It would be helpful for me if you would post supporting scripture.
This is an important topic to me.