Yet Another False Accusation!!!!!

7sForDays · Apr 23, 2014

ebedmelech said:
"Coincidence" just like "luck" and "chance" are words I try not to use. They are ways of eliminating God from the equation to me. Sometimes I slip up and use "coincidence" but the other's I don't use.

I'm familiar with many statement and sightings of the ark but really, I don't need that to tell me Noah's flood happened. There's more than enough geographical and archaeological evidence of the great flood.

I've been to Turkey while in the Navy (Izmir and Antalya). At Izmir I visted Ephesus, at Antalya I visited Perga.

Antalya is quite beautiful and scenic just lovely mountain scenery.

Unreal.

You are the first person Ive ever heard of thats been to Izmir!!!!

Bit different than back home huh..

Ever been to Acsaz (sp)?

I was a BM2, what was your rate shippy??

Notrash · Apr 23, 2014

Interplanner said:
BW you are missing the pure joy of Paul in the NT about the seed of Israel. He and the NT are not overlooking Jer 31. Christ was the seed. All those, of any background, who are in him are the ones countless as the sands of the shore.

Amen; and a good summary. The tribes of Israel were intermarried and considered gentile and Goy to the tribes if Judah. Some of the roman soldiers would have likely been descendwd from thoae tribes. It didn't matter!! 'all Israel' referred partly to all mankind, just as jacob is equated with Adam in Deut 32. This was the purpose of the seeding mentiined in hosea 2:23 See Is 66:23 also.

In his response, he basically declared the dispensatiinalism, at least his branch of it, rejects the new & everlasting covt and kingdom.

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Good chatting Interplanner. Thanks for the support.

Old Timer · Apr 23, 2014

ebedmelech said:
I've NEVER heard anyone say that...and I'm amil. My stand is that Christ came in judgment of Jerusalem to allow a stiffnecked people (for the most part) that crucified our Lord. The message to them was that the covenant He made with them was over...which is why the temple was absolutely destroyed just as Jesus said in would be. not ONE stone remained upon another, and the people were dispersed off the land.

It was the judgment of Israel/Jerusalem that took place in 70 AD. You don't have to agree with that...in time, you will!

Notrash told me that.

Regardless.. How did Christ come in AD70 according to you if it wasn't in the cloud formations?

parousia70 · Apr 23, 2014

Old Timer said:
Regardless.. How did Christ come in AD70 according to you if it wasn't in the cloud formations?

I'm glad you asked!
He said He would come in the manner of the Father's glory (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34) ie: the same way the father "came" in Judgement against individual nations in the OT.

We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16).

Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

Interplanner · Apr 23, 2014

Perhaps we should all back up one more step. I often ask people to make sure of the "end" in "end of the age" in Mt 24A, but what about the coming? Are we sure that is THE return, or is it spoken to Jerusalem and is the return to judge it after sufficient appeal through the apostles to join his mission?

In that case, M24A's 'coming' isn't the 2nd coming at all. But by B (v29+) it is global and universal, so I'm inclined to stick with the expected end of the world.

parousia70 · Apr 23, 2014

Interplanner said:
Perhaps we should all back up one more step. I often ask people to make sure of the "end" in "end of the age" in Mt 24A, but what about the coming? Are we sure that is THE return, or is it spoken to Jerusalem and is the return to judge it after sufficient appeal through the apostles to join his mission?

In that case, M24A's 'coming' isn't the 2nd coming at all. But by B (v29+) it is global and universal, so I'm inclined to stick with the expected end of the world.

Unquestionably Jesus "came" to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus, He also "came" to Stephen at his stoning... And in the Church, Christ very Body on earth, is His "presence"...Christ has come, is coming now and will continue to come in myriad of ways as He intercedes and interacts with His people on earth... so yes, It is entirely reasonable to conclude that His "coming" against the apostate leaders of 1st century Israel to remove the Kingdom from them and give it to a new nation, is separate and distinct from His multiple other "comings", up to and including His future to us "coming" at the consummation of the cosmos.... and we don't even need to split Matt 24 into "A&B" for this to be true.(though I have no beef if folks want to do that)

ebedmelech · Apr 23, 2014

7sForDays said:
Unreal.

You are the first person Ive ever heard of thats been to Izmir!!!!

Bit different than back home huh..

Ever been to Acsaz (sp)?

No. We didn't go to Aksaz. That was a cruise on board the John F Kennedy (CV-67). It was an amazing cruise because we visited so many biblical places,

*Alexandria, Egypt (Cairo, the Pyramids)

*Izmir, Turkey (Ephesus)

*Antalya, Turkey (Perga)

*Haifa, Israel (Took a great Israel tour, Jerusalem, Nazareth, Capernaum, Jordan River,)

*Naples, Italy (went to Rome)

A great cruise for me as a young believer...the Word came alive!

7sForDays said:
I was a BM2, what was your rate shippy??

I retired in 1996 after 24 years, an airdale, a jet engine mechanic (Aviation Machinist Mate)... Finished up at the rank of ADC (AW).

If I could...I'd do it again...

ebedmelech · Apr 23, 2014

Old Timer said:
Notrash told me that.

Regardless.. How did Christ come in AD70 according to you if it wasn't in the cloud formations?

Get in the word and study "clouds". You might learn something about prophetic language.

Like as God comes in judgment on Egypt in Isaiah 19:1:
The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.

This is just one way God uses clouds in prophecy...These are the things you miss when you want to read scripture and be literal, instead of reading it as literature, and examining HOW it says things, and what is going on when it is said.

Old Timer · Apr 23, 2014

parousia70 said:
I'm glad you asked!
He said He would come in the manner of the Father's glory (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34) ie: the same way the father "came" in Judgement against individual nations in the OT.

We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16).

Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

We already knew that you're another one duped into believing that Christ came in a cloud formation in AD70.

Sorry, I am more interested in Ebed's reply.

Old Timer · Apr 23, 2014

ebedmelech said:
Get in the word and study "clouds". You might learn something about prophetic language.

Like as God comes in judgment on Egypt in Isaiah 19:1:
The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.

This is just one way God uses clouds in prophecy...These are the things you miss when you want to read scripture and be literal, instead of reading it as literature, and examining HOW it says things, and what is going on when it is said.

So you're telling us that the second coming of Christ was in AD70 in cloud formations?

Is that correct?

Old Timer · Apr 23, 2014

Or maybe if Ebed and the other preterists consider all of the cloud comings.. I'd imagine that they're up to a dozen or so comings of Christ..

Biblewriter · Apr 23, 2014

parousia70 said:
Got a link to share so the rest of us can "personally check the accuracy"?

Here is the requested likn:

Wyatt Archaeological Research - Official Site of Ron Wyatt's Discoveries

As I said, I personally called the Turkish Embassy, and they confirmed that the Trukish government had indeed recognized this as the site of Noah's Ark, and had built a visitor center there. This was their only claim of which I said I had "personally checked the accuracy." None of the rest of their claims could be checked without actually visiting the site.

From earlier readings, I had thought I remembered c14 dating. But the present link says nothing about them.

Biblewriter · Apr 23, 2014

John S said:
BW - My point was simply this. If a scientist makes a false finding to "disprove" a religion, then he or she will be laughed out of the scientific community. If said scientist states that a piece of wood was from 1950, when in fact it was much older, then he or she will face such ridicule that he or she will never again be able to show his or her face.
To ridicule a scientist because he or she makes a finding that the "Christian" community disagrees with, is asinine.

And my point was that, as a scientist, I am personally familiar with numerous such false claims used to shore up attacks upon basic Christian beliefs.

7sForDays · Apr 23, 2014

ebedmelech said:
If I could...I'd do it again...

Say no more brother, Im right there with ya...

Best time of my life..

Did a ton of med/blacksea/north atl ops and loved every minute of it.. 70 countries in 5 years... It was certainly an "eye opener"..

We have it so good in the states and so many people take it for granted..

Biblewriter · Apr 23, 2014

ebedmelech said:
Archeologist have also found proof of a flood, but they haven't found the ark, yet we as Christians believe the flood happened just as the scriptures say.

Now let's look at what you said above. When we read the scriptures we find the scriptures said that Assyria besieged Samaria for 3 years.

This then is the folly of your assertion. Assyria then goes and invades Judah but because of Hezekiah's reforms turning the people to God...God doesn't allow Judah to fall. The scripture makes it plain Assyria controlled and took the whole region.

This isn't rocket science...there's MORE than enough proof that this is what Micah and Isaiah where speaking of.

You are making assumptions about history, and I am citing proven facts that demonstrate that your assumptions are incorrect.

The prophecy in Isaiah 10 has zero bearing on the Assyrian attack on Samaria. it was not eve about that attack, for the attack on Samaria was already past, as in verse 11 Assyrian says, "As I have done to Samaria and her idols, Shall I not do also to Jerusalem and her idols?"

Neither Sennacherib nor any other Assyrian leader ever invaded ancient Judea along the path precisely defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. And neither Israel not Judah ever made the counter-attack prophesied in Micah 5:5-6.

These are historical facts that are established beyond rational debate. Nothing you say can change this indisputable fact.

ebedmelech · Apr 23, 2014

Biblewriter said:
You are making assumptions about history, and I am citing proven facts that demonstrate that your assumptions are incorrect.

The prophecy in Isaiah 10 has zero bearing on the Assyrian attack on Samaria. it was not eve about that attack, for the attack on Samaria was already past, as in verse 11 Assyrian says, "As I have done to Samaria and her idols, Shall I not do also to Jerusalem and her idols?"

Neither Sennacherib nor any other Assyrian leader ever invaded ancient Judea along the path precisely defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. And neither Israel not Judah ever made the counter-attack prophesied in Micah 5:5-6.

These are historical facts that are established beyond rational debate. Nothing you say can change this indisputable fact.

I make no assumption Biblewriter...you may think I do...but that's your perogative.

Keep looking for this to happen, and when it doesn't...you may get it.

Now this is what God recorded about it, clearly stated in 1 Kings 17:5:
5 Then the king of Assyria invaded the whole land and went up to Samaria and besieged it three years.

2 Kings 17:7-41 sums it up pretty well...and it shows Assyria to be exactly what God said in Isaiah 10:5, 6:
5 Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation,
6 I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.

Keep thinking it never happened. Here's your first problem Biblewriter...look at Isaiah 1:1:
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
This is the time of the prophecy clear and succinct! You disregard that, which is clear dispensational error. Don't listen to Isaiah tell you about it...you tell Isaiah.

Isaiah starts to tell you what Assyria will do in chapter 8...in Isaiah 9...it's UNDENIABLE this is the time of the taking of Samaria (Israel) captive.

Your in denial Biblewriter!

Notrash · Apr 23, 2014

Not only thrugh or in the clouds but through the enemy of disbelieving, rejecting Israel who were his (God and the new covt's) enemies. Thats also the way he came against Babylon in Is 13. (through the Medes.

The connextion berween coming 'in the clouds' and coming through armies of Rome is then confirmed in the cloud being made in the imagery of roman soldiers, chariots swords & shields in 66 AD as reported by both Joaephus and Tacticus; both neutral historians.

Deuteronomy 32:41-42 New King James Version

41. If I whet My glittering sword, And My hand takes hold on judgment, I will render vengeance to My enemies, And repay those who hate Me. I will make My arrows drunk with blood, 42 And My sword shall devour flesh, With the blood of the slain and the captives, From the heads of the leaders of the enemy.”’

AJCServant · Apr 23, 2014

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]QUESTIONS FOR ANY VIRTUOUS-BEREAN-TYPE-BELIEVERS WHO MIGHT THOUGHTFULLY READ THIS POST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It seems that many [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] have been [/FONT]discussing the dogma promoted via this thread's Original Post without ever considering the destructive consequences of that dogma. OR whether or not the dogma presented in the OP “infallibly” "encourages" and edifies-strengthens and promotes loving-holiness towards our God in Heaven and “all” others OR whether the dogma could inevitably “demoralize” those who were born into various cultures written into the Old Testament by “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]unconverted[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” writer/scribes -- who in their day were oftentimes “hateful” towards their “enemies”.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So I pray that these pertinent questions will “strengthen” any prayerful Berean type of believers who would prayerfully consider them.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post the “several” scriptures that give the “simple” root-reasons for the “strong-delusion” in 2Thessalonians2?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ALSO[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post the “several” scriptures that admonish us “all” to “attempt” to “reprove-correct” those teachers -- who are fulfilling these root-reasons?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ALSO[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post their view concerning if a “similar” strong delusion as taught in 2Thessalonians2 had “caused” the holocaust in Jerusalem of 70AD to occur, and could then also occur in our own day?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I pray that the thoughts in this post would cause some to further consider the eternal “fruitfulness” OR “unfruitfulness” of any doctrine-of-men whose heart was “obviously” [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hardened[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] when in was first written.

It will eventually become obvious that far too many doctrines-of-men have now been endorsed by too many teachers in our modern day, whose hearts have also become hardened towards the cultures they are “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]slandering[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]”,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] rather than "reconciling" them back to God and HIS vision for their future.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For Jesus' sacrifice' sake, let us all “choose” to be fruitful and faithful and faith-filled and “never” the opposite.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shalom in Jesus,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A Servant of Jesus Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]AJCServant [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]10&15&17 & Revelation 21[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<>PS There are several key scriptures that continually govern my thoughts, hopes and prayers for all these threads, of which some are given below:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 8:31-32[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To the Judeans who had believed him, Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]“[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If you [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hold to my teaching[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], you are really my disciples. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].”[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:16-17[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Holy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]) scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]: that the man of God may become perfect ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mature[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]), [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]thoroughly furnished unto all [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]good works[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2:15-16[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]a workman that needeth not to be ashamed[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rightly dividing the word of truth.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]shun[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. (KJV) (ESV) 16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]avoid[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Titus 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Looking for that [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]blessed hope[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], and the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]glorious [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]i.e. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]fruitful[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif])[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Peter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:10&18[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]error[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] of the lawless [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ones [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and fall from your secure position[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 Peter 1:3-12 (KJV)http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1:3-12&version=KJV[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 4:19 - - Come, follow me, Jesus said, and I will send (even) you out to fish for men.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPS - Any further “edifying”, “comforting”, and “en-couraging” comments anyone?[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot the missionary.
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Old Timer · Apr 23, 2014

So for preterists.. what's that.. 10, 15, 20, comings of Christ give or take a few?

Interplanner · Apr 23, 2014

OT,
Other than the Gospel event of 0-33 AD, there is the coming in a judgement in 66+. But this 2nd sometimes blurs with the final day of judgement. Only afterward were they distinct.

So: 1.5 comings other than the Gospel.

Yet Another False Accusation!!!!!

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