YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh goodie! Since I notice the SDA's keep the Saturday Sabbath are those that do not considered "pagans"

Here is the origianal OP

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6254207&page=101&highlight=commandments
YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?

YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?

Please feel free to explain your answer as much as you wish.

Here is a bit of Scripture to help get the discussion started.

Matthew 5:17-19

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Stryder06]

Oh goodie! Since I notice the SDA's keep the Saturday Sabbath are those that do not considered "pagans"

Here is the origianal OP

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6254207&page=101&highlight=commandments
YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?

YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?

Please feel free to explain your answer as much as you wish.

Here is a bit of Scripture to help get the discussion started.

Matthew 5:17-19

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Those who do not keep the sabbath are not "pagans". There are many people in every denomination that love Christ with all their hearts. And as Christ said His sheep hear his voice. As it stands though, a day will come when people will have to make that decesion, either to follow the law of God of the law of man.

It is those who know the truth about the sabbath, but teach contrary to it, thus leading others astray, that will have to answer to God.

 

[visionary]

Isn't it time to add a poll to this thread? asking yes or no... ten commandments are still valid today?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Isn't it time to add a poll to this thread? asking yes or no... ten commandments are still valid today?

Can the mods change it to a Poll? That would make it a lot better I think

 

[TexasSky]

Yes.

The bible teaches in the New Testament that the two greatest commandments are to love God and to love others. It also teaching in the New Testament that "all the law hinges on these two."

If you love God, you will strive to do the things that He had always taught were pleasing, and to not do those things which you were taught were not pleasing. So you would try to follow the 10 commandments.

The 10 which do not directly refer to showing love and respect to God (having no other Gods, keeping the sabbath, etc.) deal with ways to act towards neighbors. Don't steal from them, don't spread lies about, don't murder, don't cheat on your spouse. All of these are part of loving others.

So yes, they apply today.

As to keeping the sabbath, the bible says, literally, "Six days shalt thou labor, on the seventh day thou shalt rest." With the last day set aside to remember God.
I know very, very, very few people who work seven days a week.
The key point of the verse is to honor God. It is not about blue laws, picking corn, or digging ox out of holes. As Christ clarified when He came.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Someone dredged up an old thread. Okay. The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the Ten Commandments point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin.

The Church has acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue. However, Christ fullfilled the law and summed up the Decalogue in these two Commandments:

"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOU GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

"YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"

To obey those two commandemts FULLY, with all they entail, is to obey the Law of God, without any Old Testament legalisms or regulations that belong to a different covenant of which we are not a part.

 

[visionary]

Someone dredged up an old thread. Okay. The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the Ten Commandments point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin.

The Church has acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue. However, Christ fullfilled the law and summed up the Decalogue in these two Commandments:

"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOU GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

"YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"

To obey those two commandemts FULLY, with all they entail, is to obey the Law of God, without any Old Testament legalisms or regulations that belong to a different covenant of which we are not a part.

Now that is a new teaching for the catholic church.. is that in the catacism too.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Now that is a new teaching for the catholic church.. is that in the catacism too.

Nothing new about it. Its in sections 2054 thru 2074:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2.htm
(I paraphrased a bit)

 

[JimfromOhio]

First John 2:3 says, "By this we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

For "commandments," the apostle did not use the Greek word nomos, which refers to the law of Moses, but the word entole, which refers to the precepts of Christ. if we desire to obey and honor the precepts of Christ, we prove that we have come to a saving knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person becomes a Christian, he acknowledges Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Before He died, Jesus was simply explaining the meaning of the Ten Commandments, the fullness of the meaning, and the intention of the Ten Commandments. When He says, “You have heard it said”. The Ten Commandments are a way to expose sin and, while you might not murder, if you have the desire to kill, the desire to murder or to commit adultery or whatever, there is, therefore, the revelation of the wretchedness of your own heart. You are not saved by trying to keep the works of the Law. That includes trying to keep the 10 commandments. Ask people how they are going to get to heaven and they'll say, "I am going to keep the 10 commandments." Well, God has already said that you can't be saved that way. Salvation can't be earned by works. It is by faith through Grace in Spirit.

Jesus said, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly". Through the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of life and light and love. Act like Jesus toward brethren in compassion, toward saints in warm affection, toward others in love without conditions (or doctrines). Love should be in priority. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others.

 

[visionary]

Nothing new about it. Its in sections 2054 thru 2074:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2.htm
(I paraphrased a bit)

I will quote a piece that seems to be in conflict with what you had said earlier..


The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I will quote a piece that seems to be in conflict with what you had said earlier..


The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments

They are obligatory in their fullfillment. As Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law." Its kinda complcated. Books could be written about it, and have. I mean, they are what they are, and the OT is Sacred Scripture too. But one must balance it out with what Christ said and did.

And like the Bible, sections of the Catechism have to be taken together and not parsed out. I've seen people mangle the Catechism the way they mangle a Bible. It can be a very complicated book.

 

[Stryder06]

As Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law."

Could it be possible that the law Christ came to fulfill were the ceremonial laws which dealt with the sacrifical ordinaces? If the 4th commandment can be "fulfilled" allowing it to no longer be kept, than what's keeping the other 9 from having been fulfilled thus allowing us to not have to keep them?

 

[&Abel]

2 Peter 3

1This is now, (A)beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am (B)stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
2that you should (C)remember the words spoken beforehand by (D)the holy prophets and (E)the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

1 John 2


7(S)Beloved, I am (T)not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had (U)from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8On the other hand, I am writing (V)a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because (W)the darkness is passing away and (X)the true Light is already shining.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Could it be possible that the law Christ came to fulfill were the ceremonial laws which dealt with the sacrifical ordinaces? If the 4th commandment can be "fulfilled" allowing it to no longer be kept, than what's keeping the other 9 from having been fulfilled thus allowing us to not have to keep them?

And one of those is the Passover

Leviticus 23:4 These appointeds of YHWH convocations of holiness which ye shall proclaim them in appointed of them. In month, the first in fourteenth to month, between the evenings Passover to YHWH;

 

[JimfromOhio]

Could it be possible that the law Christ came to fulfill were the ceremonial laws which dealt with the sacrifical ordinaces? If the 4th commandment can be "fulfilled" allowing it to no longer be kept, than what's keeping the other 9 from having been fulfilled thus allowing us to not have to keep them?

The Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances were ceremonial on Saturday (6th day). The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

What changed from ceremonial is moving from Saturday to 7th day of the working week. Everyday, we are to worship and fellowship. Only one day a week, we are to REST from our daily activities (of the 7th day of our working cycle). We are to be careful of those who practice "Sabbath" differently than other Christians. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath). In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).

 

[daydreamergurl15]

No. Christ's sacrifice made the Old law VOID. But Christ did re-implement 9 out of the 10 commandments in His teachings and they have became His commandments, so in a way, yes, we still follow those commandments, though, in my opinion, they are a lot harder because He really focuses on the intent of the heart of man.

 

[Stryder06]

The Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances were ceremonial on Saturday (6th day). The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

What changed from ceremonial is moving from Saturday to 7th day of the working week. Everyday, we are to worship and fellowship. Only one day a week, we are to REST from our daily activities (of the 7th day of our working cycle). We are to be careful of those who practice "Sabbath" differently than other Christians. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath). In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).

There were sabbath days that were done away with as in the festival days. But the sabbath day of rest remained, which is why it was part of the 10 commandments. We are not only required to rest on the sabbath, we are to keep it holy. This was a purpetual covenant between God and His people. The new covenant is declared in the old testament, and God says that He will put His law in our hearts.

The sabbath day of rest was never switched by God. The scriptures used to support this idea are taken out of context. We will worship on the sabbath in heaven, so that has to be some kind of indication of how God views this day. Were it done away with, than we would not be worshiping on that day once sin has been eliminated and all has been restored.

The law of God is holy and just and good. All of it. If you get rid of one than you have to get rid of the rest. If one is broken you are guilty of breaking them all. This is the reason why they were written by the finger of God and in stone, to show their permenance.

 

[&Abel]

There were sabbath days that were done away with as in the festival days. But the sabbath day of rest remained, which is why it was part of the 10 commandments. We are not only required to rest on the sabbath, we are to keep it holy. This was a purpetual covenant between God and His people. The new covenant is declared in the old testament, and God says that He will put His law in our hearts.

The sabbath day of rest was never switched by God. The scriptures used to support this idea are taken out of context. We will worship on the sabbath in heaven, so that has to be some kind of indication of how God views this day. Were it done away with, than we would not be worshiping on that day once sin has been eliminated and all has been restored.

The law of God is holy and just and good. All of it. If you get rid of one than you have to get rid of the rest. If one is broken you are guilty of breaking them all. This is the reason why they were written by the finger of God and in stone, to show their permenance.

Colossians 2


13When you were (AF)dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (AG)made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14having canceled out (AH)the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and (AI)He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15When He had (AJ)disarmed the (AK)rulers and authorities, He (AL)made a public display of them, having (AM)triumphed over them through Him.
16Therefore no one is to (AN)act as your judge in regard to (AO)food or (AP)drink or in respect to a (AQ)festival or a (AR)new moon or a (AS)Sabbath day-- 17things which are (AT)a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

The 10 commandments were fulfilled by Christ. We do not need to fulfill them because Christ has.. The two commandments are the very sum of the whole Law and we accomplish the two by the Love of God that has been shed abroad in our our hearts by the holy Spirit..

 

[New_Wineskin]

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14).

The Law was mainly a sign *to* the nations outside of Israel . If Israel kept the Law , the Lord would bless them . The nations would see that Israel was blessed and have a witness of the Lord that He is good . However , Israel not obeying the Law - the whole Law - they would be cursed . This would also bring a negative look un the Lord as being the "proclaimed" god of Israel -. Which is why the Lord said that He was cursed by the pagans because of those claiming to observe the Law but disobeying it .

The same goes for those promoting their god which they call the "sabbath" but do not observe all of the laws regarding the Sabbath ( none do and they all even outright refuse to do ) or the rest of the Law .