Yes! Every species, has a capacity to be "amenable" to the changes its species will make?

How amenable are you to potential changes, that will affect your species?

  • A little.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A lot.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Enough.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More as facts agree with Evolution.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More as facts agree in general.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More as fact sustains faith in God.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More as fact overreaches by the power of the Spirit.

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I understand what the foundation of Evolutionist's insistence, on correlation between the species and the individual being specie-wide is: agency of the individual, is affected by the degree that individual can be amenable. Therefore, amenability that still justifies the individual's agency, will be advanced by Evolution. The logic is plain: the more amenability that an individual can sustain, the more adaptation they will be able to sustain. The more adaptation they sustain, the more the individual's agency, needs to be dynamic. These two things evolve, in tandem with each other - making a two-state equilibrium that cannot be resolved, by a particular choice, with the exception of embracing the two-state equilibrium as a whole - making Evolution a black box development, that can't be sustained without design (the ability to take a set of changes, as responsible for the whole?).

The point is, you can establish a foundation for each separate species, on the basis of whether the majority of that species, is amenable to changes in response to selection pressures. The selection pressures themselves, may change or not, but if more of the species is amenable over time, to the developments in response to those selection pressures, that species will survive more. Survival of the fittest, is relative to how amenable the fittest are. Culture, in turn, can take this "amenability" and develop responses that specifically increase the amenability that a particular species attempts to express. The retelling of the theory of Evolution, is just such an example: by retelling the tenets of Evolution, the majority of the species is able to make itself ready ("amenable") to respond to new selection pressures, as they are identified.

Identity, then, becomes a currency, in a given species, as to how that species can be evaluated, as to its amenability as a whole. The more amenable a species is, the readier that species becomes to mate. If the amenability reduces at the prospect of mating, that mating is delayed. The level of amenability, directly affects, what that species will experience, by way of Evolution, generation to generation. Identity has a second feature as well, in that it can insist on a particular species' trait being protracted, that is mated for, across a number of mating seasons. Identity becomes an amenable identity, that is familiar, in numerous contexts - it transcends Evolution, in an evolved way (not because it is not being selected for, but because that selection is already anticipated, before there is circumstance in which it is "testable" one way or the other). Once amenability is found to agree with Evolution, Evolution does not need to engage as much, that is, with selection pressures it knows are coming.

I wonder if you can digest this? That if you are "amenable", you can be "trusted" to be amenable?

Give me your thoughts?
 

Gottservant

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False.

Evolutionary changes do not happen to individuals or over individual life spans.

Evolutionary changes are not choices.

I said the species as a whole may be amenable - what's wrong with that?

If a species has a choice and becomes more amenable to that choice, how is that "not" Evolution?

You can deny the agency of a species all you like, but if they are amenable to a change, that will affect the outcome (even to the 'whole of' the species).

At some point agency fails, because you cannot expect every agent to behave in the same way, but if a species is amenable in the same way, they can arrive at an outcome, without forcing it.
 
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Shemjaza

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I said the species as a whole may be amenable - what's wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with that, but you then implied that individual action effected the evolution and adaption of the species.

If a species has a choice and becomes more amenable to that choice, how is that "not" Evolution?
A species does not have a choice and can't have a choice because a species is not an individual.

You can deny the agency of a species all you like, but if they are amenable to a change, that will affect the outcome (even to the 'whole of' the species).

A species can have traits, but it can't have choices, desires or decisions.

At some point agency fails, because you cannot expect every agent to behave in the same way, but if a species is amenable in the same way, they can arrive at an outcome, without forcing it.

This is unclear and I'm not sure how it relates to the rest of your comments.
 
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Gottservant

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No, Gotts. Just no.

You again show that you don't understand anything about evolution and you seemingly have no desire to actually learn or even understand what evolution is.

Which is you trying to get me to be 'amenable' to a more cut and dried definition of "Evolution".

Like I said "you might want to dispute agency, but there's no way you can dispute 'amenability'".

Who made you policemen of a particular interpretation of Evolution? I don't police a particular interpretation of the faith?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Which is you trying to get me to be 'amenable' to a more cut and dried definition of "Evolution".

Like I said "you might want to dispute agency, but there's no way you can dispute 'amenability'".

Who made you policemen of a particular interpretation of Evolution? I don't police a particular interpretation of the faith?

There is no 'amenability' in evolution. You just clearly don't understand a thing about it.

Gottservant, we go through this sort of thing every week, where you ask an inane question on what you think evolution is, and you are corrected and told what evolution is, then you flat out ignore what you are told and go on to ask another inane question about what you think evolution is.

Why do you just refuse to accept what you are told, and that you are massively wrong about your views and statements on evolution?
 
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Gottservant

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Nothing is wrong with that, but you then implied that individual action effected the evolution and adaption of the species.

If a member of the species reminds the species that the species needs to be amenable, is that not for the species to adapt?

A species does not have a choice and can't have a choice because a species is not an individual.

If the species as a whole, identifies that it can survive one way, or the other (whether with a certain area having some food, or a different area having a lot of food), how is that not a choice?

A species can have traits, but it can't have choices, desires or decisions.

And a species can have ways of communicating those traits.

This is unclear and I'm not sure how it relates to the rest of your comments.

Arriving at an outcome that you are amenable to, is the point. You say "no I just accept my Evolution", if you said "yes, at some point I was amenable to what Evolution I had" you would not be in denial. But now you can't tell whether you believe it for real, or whether you just believe a false positive.
 
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Shemjaza

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If a member of the species reminds the species that the species needs to be amenable, is that not for the species to adapt?
Not possible or sensible.

A species doesn't have an individual identity or mind so can't be "reminded" to do anything.

Adaption is not a decision, it's a consequence of genetic variation leading to increased success for part of the species.

If the species as a whole, identifies that it can survive one way, or the other (whether with a certain area having some food, or a different area having a lot of food), how is that not a choice?

It's not a choice because it doesn't happen. Species as a whole don't identify or make decisions.

Species have trends and variation, but this is not decisions nor is it a mind.

And a species can have ways of communicating those traits.

No, they can't.

Arriving at an outcome that you are amenable to, is the point. You say "no I just accept my Evolution", if you said "yes, at some point I was amenable to what Evolution I had" you would not be in denial. But now you can't tell whether you believe it for real, or whether you just believe a false positive.

False.

Individuals do not have an evolution and can't have an evolution, because evolution is not a possession, trait or belief of an individual.

Evolution is a process that affects populations over multiple generations, not relevant to the beliefs of an individual... so it can't be either a false positive or a true positive.
 
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Gottservant

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Not possible or sensible.

A species doesn't have an individual identity or mind so can't be "reminded" to do anything.

No but a species has a pack formation, so it knows what is for the pack and what not.

Adaption is not a decision, it's a consequence of genetic variation leading to increased success for part of the species.
The longer you stay in the pack, the more like the pack you become.


[...]
No, they can't [communicate traits]

There is a word for trait and a word for communicate: they can.


[...]Evolution is a process that affects populations over multiple generations, not relevant to the beliefs of an individual... so it can't be either a false positive or a true positive.

The more that change is predicted, the more the species can respond to that change.

Nothing I am saying is rocket science, you just keep insisting on going further down the rabbit hole.
 
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Gottservant

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You haven't once shown how 'amenability' has anything to do with evolution, nor shown it being important to evolutionary theory.

Are you an agent? Yes. Then what are you amenable to? Words. Please.

Don't stop communicating because its not the dogma you've already learned; one of the key benefits of talking with someone who sees things like "agency" missing, is that you get a chance to stretch yourself, what you believe.




Nonsensical gibberish as usual.

And you're putting words in my mouth. I never called you a liar. I just correctly pointed out that you have been told many, many, MANY times that you have been told where you are wrong when talking about evolution, and you refuse to learn when you are told you're wrong.

It's "wrong" to take something that edifies the soul, and argue that it shouldn't have a benefit for the soul after all.

As if the truth of something, is that it keeps being tested!
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Are you an agent? Yes. Then what are you amenable to? Words. Please.

Don't stop communicating because its not the dogma you've already learned; one of the key benefits of talking with someone who sees things like "agency" missing, is that you get a chance to stretch yourself, what you believe.

And you're still not showing how being 'amenable' has any bearing on evolutionary theory, and also showing that you still don't understand a single thing about evolutionary theory.

Agency and communication have nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is merely and simply just a biological reaction in response to changing environmental pressures.

It's "wrong" to take something that edifies the soul, and argue that it shouldn't have a benefit for the soul after all.

As if the truth of something, is that it keeps being tested!

It's wrong to ignore what people tell you, especially when you are told that you are wrong about something you continually choose to talk about.
 
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Shemjaza

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No but a species has a pack formation, so it knows what is for the pack and what not.

The longer you stay in the pack, the more like the pack you become.

Not all species have social structures... and even species that have social structures do not operate as a single mind... and even if that were possible evolution does occurs over multiple generations so it wouldn't be visible to a single species... and even aside from that, evolution is not a choice.



There is a word for trait and a word for communicate: they can.

It is literally impossible.

You are assigning communication to something that doesn't exist as a single identity and has not method of communicating anyway.


The more that change is predicted, the more the species can respond to that change.

Nothing I am saying is rocket science, you just keep insisting on going further down the rabbit hole.

Your ideas about how life and evolution work are simply false.

The changes can't be predicted and can't be reacted to because they do not happen on the scale of anything that can make decisions.
 
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Freodin

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So I understand what the foundation of Evolutionist's insistence, on correlation between the species and the individual being specie-wide is: agency of the individual, is affected by the degree that individual can be amenable.
First sentence - already failed. Completely.

- the "agency" of the individual (agency for what?) has nothing to do with their "amendability" (amendability to what?)
- this has nothing to do with a "correlation between species and individual" (correlation regarding what?)
- all of this has absolutely nothing to do with any "foundantion of Evolutionist's insistence" (insistence of what?)
- and neither has it anything to do with Evolution in general

You'll never get anywhere in your understanding, if you keep starting from these totally bonkers ideas.
Somehow you have made up your mind that "Evolution" is a great, mysterious (and perhaps nefarious) force that is controlling your life and afterlife. IT. IS. NOT.

It is the description of a biological process that can, regarding you personally, in a very small part tell you something about your biological origin. That's all. It doesn't give you purpose - it is not meant to give you purpose. It doesn't keep you from having goals, it doesn't keep you from loving Jesus.

If you really get deep into it, into genetics, epigenetics, population mechanics, all the scientific stuff... it can get really complex. But you are so far from that level that a very basic understanding would improve your whole approach massively.
 
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