YECs, constructive criticizism

[Megachihuahua]

Some consructive critsism, YECs. The bible shows the earth wasn't created in six days:
For you, a thouand years are as yesterday! They are like a few hours! Psalm 90:4
Also, my late grandfather could speak hebrew and greek. In hebrew, "day" has three meanings
Sunrise to sunset.
Sunrise to sunrise.
A longer period of time, sometimes called an epoch or age.


Does it really matter how long it took god to create the universe anyway?

 

[futantbirth]

wow. thank you for that. i've been looking for that particular silver bullet for awhile now.

 

[Siliconaut]

@Megachi:

Does it really matter how long it took god to create the universe anyway?

To theology? Nope. To science? Yep.

The earth still didn't get created as *literally* put in the bible, though. Species weren't put there "as is", evolution *has* taken place.

That's the problem with biblical literalism: You hit a bump, so you discard literalism and interpret, thus violating your own standards. The only way to bring the bible in accordance with the universe around it, is to dump literalism and understand that human interpretation can always be flawed, but the underlying word of god is unaffected by the flaws of its interpreters.

^ Imagine this defence of christianity coming from an atheist...

 

[Luvien]

wow. that's interesting. but did ur grandpa tell you that if they put a number in front of the word it means 1 day or 2 days. also, if it meant a really long period of time, let's say, a billion years, does that mean god wants us to work for 6 billion years and then rest for 1 billion years? hhhmmmmmm....

 

[Siliconaut]

@Luvien:

...does that mean god wants us to work for 6 billion years and then rest for 1 billion years?

*gg*
Some days it certainly feels like that...

 

[futantbirth]

it just means that it is relative... translating it to mean an exact number, even in billions, draws the same box.

 

[Woodsy]

Oh no, it's taken 5,000 years, but finally somebody discovered our weakness! Nobody's ever looked at the text that closely before! Now I guess Judaism and Christianity will just have to close up shop.

We'd have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids and their dog!

 

[JohnR7]

The earth still didn't get created as *literally* put in the bible, though. Species weren't put there "as is", evolution *has* taken place.

The world is not as God created it. When He created the world He said it was good. Adam and Eve were created in perfection. Then they fell from the grace of God into sin, dishonor and disgrace.

So, is that what your calling "evolution" how the world fell from perfection into the fallen state it is in now?

 

[Jase]

Some consructive critsism, YECs. The bible shows the earth wasn't created in six days:
For you, a thouand years are as yesterday! They are like a few hours! Psalm 90:4
Also, my late grandfather could speak hebrew and greek. In hebrew, "day" has three meanings
Sunrise to sunset.
Sunrise to sunrise.
A longer period of time, sometimes called an epoch or age.


Does it really matter how long it took god to create the universe anyway?

Lets assume that in Genesis, Psalms 90:4 applied, and a few hours ( lets say 3) is as 1000 years. That means each day would be 8000 years of time. 8000 X 6 days = 48,000 years. That is still a miniscule fraction compared to the naturalistic belief of 5 billion years. Not to mention, since when does an 8000 year time span have 1 sunrise and 1 sunset? And i guess if day 7 was 8000 years too, that means humanity shouldn't have been doing work for the last 8000 years...

 

[Siliconaut]

@John:

The world is not as God created it. When He created the world He said it was good. Adam and Eve were created in perfection. Then they fell from the grace of God into sin, dishonor and disgrace.

So, is that what your calling "evolution" how the world fell from perfection into the fallen state it is in now?

No, and you don't *want* to get it, do you? The world was obviously *not* created perfect, with everything in place. When the supposed Adam & Eve appeared on the scene, evolution had been going on for aeons. Which hypothesis to explain away the evidence is is going to be today, then?

 

[Michali]

Conisder this- Jesus' yell "It is finished!" as he gives up his ghost on the cross means much more than was first thought. God finished his work on the seventh day and then he rested. Man was created on the sixth day. The end of the sixth day? The flood perhaps. Work will pick back up when Jesus comes early in the morning on the 8th day. We can see a periodical good to evil in the history of man. A periodical night and day. Since Jesus temporarily left we have been in darkness. "I am the light of the world...", is what Jesus himself said. Many parables such as the parable of persistence describes the Father being at rest in his bed with his children.

 

[Siliconaut]

@Michali: Ummm... what exactly was your point in regards to this thread again?

 

[pudmuddle]

I believe the quote from Psalms just illustrates that God does not have to operate within the constrants of time.
It's kind of funny how evolutionists will use this idea of the awesomeness of God to try to discredit creationism.

"Hey look, God didn't do any of this! It's not possible!" (they say) "By the way, he's above time so the part about days doesn't mean anything, ya dumb YEC's!"

Why is it so hard for a Christian who believes Jesus rose from the dead to believe He spoke all things into existance in six days?


(No, and you don't *want* to get it, do you? The world was obviously *not* created perfect, with everything in place. When the supposed Adam & Eve appeared on the scene, evolution had been going on for aeons. Which hypothesis to explain away the evidence is is going to be today, then?--Posted by Siliconaut )

What version of the so-called evidence are you going to use to discredit creationism this time?

 

[Megachihuahua]

I'm sorry, guys, it really makes sense either way. Dinos and mamoths in the same strata layer, or inaccurate carbon dating? Whatever...

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

I'd love to see where you found that all carbon dating is inaccurate and that mammoths and dinos were deposited in the same strata at the same time. I can see how this might happen with an incompetent researcher on the carbon dating. Also volatile natural changes could erode, then redeposit creating the illusion that a mammoth and dino were there at the same time. Though you could then look at the condition of the bones, dinos would be in much worse condition and have different minerals in them.

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

Assuming that genesis is not literal there are still problems.

1- Water before land... There has to be land to hold the water or else it's just floating out in space.

2- Plants created without a sun. What did they do between the eon long days with no sun? There was light but it wasn't sunlight which is what plants need. Could have been laser light for all we know, it doesn't say.

3- Plants were created before seasons. How did they know when to bloom? Or were these later adaptations after seasons?

4- Plants were created before animals. How were plants that rely solely on insects to pollinate them able to reproduce?

5- How were the carnivores able to survive on plants when their teeth were designed for meet? Huge carnivores like the dinosaurs have teeth designed for one thing, eating meat. They could eat some grass but it would be highly inefficient since they would require tons of it a day. Try eating a salad using just your canines and see how long it takes.


The idea that genesis took longer than 7 of our days creates more problems than it solves :/

 

[Jase]

I'd love to see where you found that all carbon dating is inaccurate and that mammoths and dinos were deposited in the same strata at the same time. I can see how this might happen with an incompetent researcher on the carbon dating. Also volatile natural changes could erode, then redeposit creating the illusion that a mammoth and dino were there at the same time. Though you could then look at the condition of the bones, dinos would be in much worse condition and have different minerals in them.

Go look up the innaccuracies of Carbon dating. The doctor that discovered the method said its not even accurate past a few thousand years, and he has yet to find any human remains that date past 5000 years based on C14 dating.

Dendochronology also isn't as great as people assume. Its also very unreliable.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Go look up the innaccuracies of Carbon dating. The doctor that discovered the method said its not even accurate past a few thousand years, and he has yet to find any human remains that date past 5000 years based on C14 dating.

Dendochronology also isn't as great as people assume. Its also very unreliable.

How about you go read Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective. It nicely explains how radiometric dating works, as well as pointing out a number of misconceptions people have about it.

 

[troodon]

Dinos and mamoths in the same strata layer

Holy cow. I, like the_malevolent_milk_man, am dying to see some evidence for this. Any at all. Such a thing would destroy modern evolutionary thinking. However, due to the outrageousness of the claim I am going to admit that I think you made this up. I think you're lying.

 

[wblastyn]

I believe the quote from Psalms just illustrates that God does not have to operate within the constrants of time.
It's kind of funny how evolutionists will use this idea of the awesomeness of God to try to discredit creationism.

"Evolutionists" don't need to try and discredit creationism, Creation does that perfectly well all by itself.

"Hey look, God didn't do any of this! It's not possible!" (they say) "By the way, he's above time so the part about days doesn't mean anything, ya dumb YEC's!"

We don't think it's impossible for God to create like literal Genesis say He did, however, creation itself shows literal Genesis is not true.

Why is it so hard for a Christian who believes Jesus rose from the dead to believe He spoke all things into existance in six days?

Ugh, we don't think God could not have done it, we just think He didn't. Evidecne from creation shows God (assuming He exists) used evolution to create.