YEC pros and cons

[EnemyPartyII]

Oldest known TRUE city...

Chatal Hyuk, modern Turkey... 7,000 to 8,000 years old

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catal_hoyuk

 

[DvAna]

YEC pros: It allows those Christians who get off on feeling persecuted to kvetch about how oppressed they are despite the fact that they live in a country that's ~80% Christian.

Hold the phone! "Getting off" on feeling persecuted????

I mean, even when I was a child attending private school, with my sister, and learning YEC and not much about evolution.... I STILL never "got off" on being persecuted.

You know something, I was not allowed to listen to rock n roll music either. When I went to public school, I certainly was not "getting off" on follow my faith.

YEC cons: It is contradicted by all available evidence and makes Christianity look bad.

There's a statement that makes me wanna listen to you.

Next please?

 

[DvAna]

YEC: =Inconsistant

What is inconsistant about simply believing in a miracle?

I mean..... just because we don't always see eye to eye, does not mean miracles are scientificly impossible.

In a purely scientific sense, YEC is possible if it is viewed as a scientificlly unverifiable miracle. No?

And if then that is the case, what is so wrong with a religious person believing in miracles?

Happy to pour scorn on scientific discoveries that they don't agree with, but happy to take medications to cure ills.

That is a shame. Good thing I am neither of those things.

Condem geological dating techniques, but happy to use PC's using purified silicon.[/what]

I'm sorry, I didn't get that, could you type a little slower for me?

Basically pick and choose what bits of science they like. Science is not a democracy.

And neither are the Scriptures a science book.

If only my sister had the courage to do this herself....

 

[Pats]

YEC: =Inconsistant

Consistancy matter is a lot in science. I see where you are coming from.

Happy to pour scorn on scientific discoveries that they don't agree with, but happy to take medications to cure ills.

There was a time in my life when I would have taken a comment like that personally. Although, it certainly doesn't apply to me. And although I had thought perhaps I was "swaing" away from YEC..... now I'm seeing how it could have been a miracle.

Condem geological dating techniques, but happy to use PC's using purified silicon.

A PC???? you think I'm adicted to my computer????

Basically pick and choose what bits of science they like. Science is not a democracy.

Good point.

 

[Freodin]

What is inconsistant about simply believing in a miracle?

I mean..... just because we don't always see eye to eye, does not mean miracles are scientificly impossible.

In a purely scientific sense, YEC is possible if it is viewed as a scientificlly unverifiable miracle. No?

And if then that is the case, what is so wrong with a religious person believing in miracles?

Simply believing a miracle might be lacking in explanatory value, but it is not inconsistant per se.

The problem with YEC miracles is the usage.... to explain - or rather, explain away - internal inconsistencies.

YEC - and every other form of creationism based on biblical "literalism" pretends to be scientific. In science, processes have to be explainable. YEC miracles are not. Every occurance in YEC history that would need an explanation can be "explained" by a miracle.... that is, not at all.

Take a look at the most famous topic in the YEC debate: the Great Deluge. How did it work? Where did the water come from? Where did it go? How did it shape the landscape the way it did? How did it produce all the fossils? How did it sort them? How did it manage to leave traces of animals and such alone? How did Noah manage to build his ship? How did he manage to gather, feed and bring back all these animals?

There are thousands of YEC theories about these questions.... and many of them contradict themselves (and each other). But, poof, invoke a miracle, and all questions are answered.

And now try to apply this approach to any other field of scientific study. I´m sure you will see why it would not work.

 

[Pats]

Oh they've tried, and tried, and tried, and they'll keep trying... and failing miserably.

Who's tried what? Were you talking about YEC??????

Oh my.... some of you do have a low opinion of people who might just so happen to believe in miracles.... or it seems so at times.

 

[Pats]

Oldest known TRUE city...

Chatal Hyuk, modern Turkey... 7,000 to 8,000 years old

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catal_hoyuk

Well, even for a YEC.... if it was a miracle, then it was a miracle. Nice article though, thank you for sharing.

 

[ThePenguinMafia]

pros- any retard can follow it
cons - it's demonstratably false.

 

[DvAna]

pros- any retard can follow it

A retard???? Are you saying evolution is a lie?

cons - it's demonstratably false.

What is? Would you kindly demonstrate?

 

[Pats]

Simply believing a miracle might be lacking in explanatory value, but it is not inconsistant per se.

What do you think of people when they tell you they have whitnessed miracles????

Sounds too hard to believe? Too Crazy to concieve???

Or, they want to explain it away and say that Jesus is not Lord and that "god" is this cute little old man sitting on a cloud some where "outhere."

To me, that's crazy. But, this is a crazy insane mixed up world.

The problem with YEC miracles is the usage.... to explain - or rather, explain away - internal inconsistencies.

Let's just say, for a moment, that I was still 100% YEC?

Nothing I posted would convince you anyway, would it? I mean, do you have faith? It takes faith to see the YEC movement.

YEC - and every other form of creationism based on biblical "literalism" pretends to be scientific.

YEC should not have to pretend to be anything, if it is real...... However Evolution seems to be more a concept of "the deciever."

Perhaps Evolution is the real lie.

In science, processes have to be explainable. YEC miracles are not. Every occurance in YEC history that would need an explanation can be "explained" by a miracle.... that is, not at all.

I'm sorry, I'm hard of hearing... what did you say again????

Take a look at the most famous topic in the YEC debate: the Great Deluge. How did it work? Where did the water come from? Where did it go? How did it shape the landscape the way it did? How did it produce all the fossils? How did it sort them? How did it manage to leave traces of animals and such alone? How did Noah manage to build his ship? How did he manage to gather, feed and bring back all these animals?

That sounds like an interesting book. Thanks for your suggestion.

However... I could become a scientist and still be able to see a miracle that is right in front of my face.

Doctor's do it all the time! Trust me, I work in the medical feild.

There are thousands of YEC theories about these questions.... and many of them contradict themselves (and each other). But, poof, invoke a miracle, and all questions are answered.

Yes, in this imperfect world, it is harder and harder for skeptics to see His miracels, I hear what you are saying.

 

[Dal M.]

Hold the phone! "Getting off" on feeling persecuted????

Yes.

Think about it for a moment. As I mentioned before, the nation is about 80% Christian. Christianity is no longer the exclusive club it used to be, which disappoints some Christians; they'd prefer that they be members of a select group - the "peculiar people" Peter speaks of. And if you're trying to distance yourself from the rest of modern society - a society which, you'll note, is driven by technology - there's virtually nothing better you can do than oppose science.

By rejecting science in favor of a literal reading of their religious texts, YECs are modeling themselves (albeit superficially) after early Christians: they see themselves as bearers of a secret capital-T Truth in a world that's trying to stamp out their beliefs. It's a very romantic notion.

It's also complete bollocks. But that's young-Earth creationism for you.

I mean, even when I was a child attending private school, with my sister, and learning YEC and not much about evolution.... I STILL never "got off" on being persecuted.

Then it should be abundantly obvious I wasn't talking about you.

There's a statement that makes me wanna listen to you.

If you have any specific objections, feel free to share them. I stand by my claims that young-Earth creationism is a.) contradicted by all evidence and b.) makes Christianity look bad, and I will gladly support them if you'd like.

I have particular and very personal insights on the second one there, as I used to be a Christian before I got involved in the creation/evolution debate.

 

[michabo]

Pros: it is possible to describe completely in a single sentence without using big words.

Cons: it isn't true.

 

[Pats]

Pros: it is possible to describe completely in a single sentence without using big words.

That's too easy

Cons: it isn't true.

Liar!

 

[michabo]

That's too easy

Well, I thought of saying that it was possible to express YEC in two words "it's magic" or "God's will" but decided that there were nuances which demanded a full sentence.

Liar!

Liar? Because I said YEC is wrong? Are you sure you understand the word "liar"?

At best you could say I was mistaken. I'm not, but I think that's the strongest you could say.

 

[Jase]

In the same place that Science says that civilization began, in the middle east in the furtile cresent.

Hunter gathers were never more then 50 people that traveled from place to place. The first permenant settlements began around 6,000 years ago when you will begin to find up to 300 people in a settlement.

The dates can be difficult to determine though, because the cities were built on camp sites that they had been using for thousands of years.

How nice John, dodging the question. I didn't ask where civilization started, I asked where in the Bible it says civilization began 6,000 years ago.

 

[Jase]

Who's tried what? Were you talking about YEC??????

Oh my.... some of you do have a low opinion of people who might just so happen to believe in miracles.... or it seems so at times.

The problem with it is it explains nothing, especially when the observable evidence contradicts it. Saying a global flood occurred, and then when asked how did it result in the current observable evidence, the reply is a miracle, we have gotten no where. It is a logical fallacy to explain something obscure with something equally or more obscure than what it is trying to explain.

 

[JohnR7]

How nice John, dodging the question. I didn't ask where civilization started, I asked where in the Bible it says civilization began 6,000 years ago.

The time line is based on the geneologys.

4004 BC- 3004 BC Adam to Methusaleh
3004 BC - 2348 BC Ends with the Flood
2348 BC - 2004 BC Begins with the Flood
2004 BC - 1754 BC Abraham
1754 BC - 1504 BC Joseph in Egypt
1504 BC - 1254 BC Exodus
1254 BC - 1004 BC Judges to Solomon
1004 BC - 754 BC Division of Kingdoms
754 BC - 504 BC Assyrian and Babylonian Captivities, Daniel
504 BC - 254 BC Esther
254 BC - 1 AD Ptolemies govern Jews, Rome governs Jews
1 AD - 250 AD Ministry of Christ, Scattering of the Jews
250 AD - 500 AD Constantine and Ladocia Council
http://agards-bible-timeline.com/timeline_online.html

 

[Jase]

The time line is based on the geneologys.

4004 BC- 3004 BC Adam to Methusaleh
3004 BC - 2348 BC Ends with the Flood
2348 BC - 2004 BC Begins with the Flood
2004 BC - 1754 BC Abraham
1754 BC - 1504 BC Joseph in Egypt
1504 BC - 1254 BC Exodus
1254 BC - 1004 BC Judges to Solomon
1004 BC - 754 BC Division of Kingdoms
754 BC - 504 BC Assyrian and Babylonian Captivities, Daniel
504 BC - 254 BC Esther
254 BC - 1 AD Ptolemies govern Jews, Rome governs Jews
1 AD - 250 AD Ministry of Christ, Scattering of the Jews
250 AD - 500 AD Constantine and Ladocia Council
http://agards-bible-timeline.com/timeline_online.html

In other words, the Bible doesn't say life began 6,000 years ago, the notion is merely based on one Bishop's assumption that the geneologies in Genesis are both accurate and complete.

 

[Silent Bob]

Pros: It is easy. Intelectually, all one has to do is dismiss the evidence and say God/thefalldidit. Spiritually, the Bible is entirely literal so there is no need to reconcile with reality or question any part. If the Bible, which saddly is often interchanged with God, says so there is nothing more to talk about. Philosophically, no questions of when or how humans became humans no doubts about our specialness (made up word?). Scientifically, no need to study archeology, evolutionary biology, cosmology, radiometry and so many more scientific disciplines. Replace everything with Goddidit and presto the easiest cosmotheory to swallow!

Cons: You will be ridiculed and mocked when and if you come to contact with educated people. A college level course in biology has the potential of debunking your entire belief structure. It is damaging to the scientific potential of any country whose kids are exposed to false ideas about science (i.e. it is just a theory, nothing is proven, science is atheistic etc).

What do you think of people when they tell you they have whitnessed miracles????

I am a Christian and I don't automatically open my mouth and start praying. We owe it to ourselves, to God and to the world to investigate such claims with skepticism. The danger from accepting every cancer remission, every healed coma, every Virgin Marry on a muffin as a miracle is to become a superstitious cult no better than the folks who tried to cure schizophrenia by trambling over the victim to force the demons out.

 

[Abongil]

YEC has nothing of value to contribute to science, medicine, or humanity in general.