KerrMetric
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Calminian said:My point was they are honest about their approach.
It isn't honest because:
a) it isn't science
b) they do hide this conclusion first approach often
They start with the presupposition that the Bible is historically accurate.
Bingo. A hypothesis being used as a conclusion. Makes it not a science.
They then combine their scientific knowledge, their historical knowledge, and their theological knowledge so they can rightfully discern what the evidence reveals.
This explains why they are laughed at.
They have a superior method because they don't limit themselves to naturalistic assumptions.
Rubbish. It is not a method its a dogma.
My biggest concern with scientists is that they don't grasp the assumptions their field is based on. Science is not objective when it comes the methodological naturalism.
More rubbish. Yes we do uderstand our assumptions otherewise we couldn't do the job.
First I don't think the subject of origins belongs in a science classroom at all. I think students deserve better than that. The truth is, it belongs in a philosophy class where all forms of evidence can be looked at. Students need to hear about Aristotle's and other philosopher's logical arguments against infinite regression.
Yes it does belong. The theological/metaphysical/philosophical aspect doesn't belong in a science class but the actual science does.
Second you need to stop claiming that science supports your brand of theology more so than it does YECism. The truth is, science will never conclude what you believe either. The difference is, AIG and ICR are honest about the fact that they are not limiting themselves to scientific knowledge. They openly state they start with the Bible. That's admirable.
Admirable??? It's a disgusting character flaw the way they go about it. And what they are doing is the limiting factor. When you have a conclusion in mind and show horn or discard facts that is NOT admirable. It's a disgrace.
The problem is with the premise of the thread. I don't agree with the premise. You seem to believe that science is the only evidence out there.
It's the only evidence that matters in a scientific arena.
Yet when Paul told us God is revealed in the observable creation, the scientific method didn't even exist. God doesn't want us to observe the creation with the bias of methodological naturalism. You seem to asking people, including creation ministries, to do just that. Why?
He also wants us to think for ourselves and use his gifts not be sheep.
Honestly you will never understand this debate until you come to grasp with the concept of presuppositions. You'll never be able to truly understand the evidence if you limit yourself to the scientific method. But when you open yourself to all forms of evidence, including but not limited to science, you'll finally understand creationism. And you'll become a much better thinker.
The only evidence here is the scientific kind. The rest is pie in the sky with respect to the natural world and its workings. Science doesn't impinge on the spiritual so the spiritual should butt out of the science. Quid pro quo.
Creation ministries use scientific evidence along with other forms of evidence (the Bible, etc.) in their rational arguments for a young earth. You irrationally limited yourself to methodological naturalism. Why be irrational? Why limit yourself?
Because the science approach for science works. The AIG/ICR cabals have never contributed a single thing except laughter.
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