Ye Olde Libertarian Pub

[GrayCat]

Anyone checked out this site?: reformthelp.org
I'm fully in support of reforming the Libertarian Party to a less radical, less idealistic party.

You can have all the principles you want, but the times they are a-changin and it's going to take more than the words of Thomas Jefferson to get Libertarian candidates elected.

Will the party have to compromise on some issues? Sure. But unless more moderate Libertarians come from the party, no one is going to get elected and so no change will come (not "Obama change"; change in your pocket from tax cuts.)

The uncompromising idealism is part of what attracts me to this party, actually. Compromising on principles and ideas (which can lead to "playing both sides" of issues) is basically what defines current politics and politicians, in my view, and i find that the libertarian party has far less of that behavior than either of the 2 main parties. I think that if we want stuff to happen, like getting rid of the Patriot Act, ending the wars (including Afghanistan), getting the government out of drugs/marriage/stem cells/etc, ending the trend of bailouts and government-spending, and other things, the best chance for all this lies with the libertarian party, precisely because of its strong idealism. Bush's Republican administration didn't do anything for these causes, and Obama's Democrat administration isn't doing anything for them either so far.

 

[insaneinthebrain]

Will the party have to compromise on some issues? Sure.

Thus making the LP #3 on the list of parties that don't really look out for those that elected them.

I have no problem with a moderate candidate, but I'm not big on backing someone I don't really agree with just to get my party in office. At the end of the day we should vote for liberty, not parties.

 

[TestedNTriedNTrue]

Wow... a Libertarian forum on here?!?!?

Hey, I'm cool with it. Last I posted an "Editorial" on here. I thought I was going to get hung by my thumbs...

Anyhow... greetings to all. It's been a while. Last time I came here, I was a "Left of center" type of a guy. Needless to say, much, and I do mean MUCH has changed.

Anyhow... I'll be lurking.

 

[Freethinker11]

Do Socialist Libertarians count?

 

[Selznak]

Just droppin' by to say hi! Although I'm more of a "small-l libertarian" I was very pleased to see a forum for LP folks.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Do Socialist Libertarians count?

My personal answer to this one:

If and only if they don't rank equality above individual liberty. And if that's the case, the only socialism they could support would be entirely voluntary... and if it is, I have no problem with that either.

 

[voiceofsoul]

Hello Libertarians! I am a Republican, but definitely well within the libertarian wing of the party. Issue-by-issue, I am much more in line with the Libertarian Party than the current neoconservative-dominated Republican Pary.

It amazes me how so many Christians zealously/blindly follow the neocons and are two issue voters (traditional marriage and abortion). It amazes me even more how a growing number of young "free-thinking, intellectual" Christians have zealously/blindly gone in the tank with the left-wing/authoritarian/collectivists. I want my freedom to be a Christian and leave my social and fiscal decisions between me and God.

 

[neutronium_alice]

I already have an intro-thread, but I thought I'd introduce myself to the libertarians.

I'm Alice, and I've had an interest in political theory and economics for about five years now. I adopted a 'libertarian' position for both consequentialist and principled reasons. I don't think there is any alternative to a market economy for the rational allocation of scarce resources and no gain to regulation, taxation or socialization. The principled side of it is that I don't think justice is 'merit' or even morality (dep. on what you mean by it), it's the rule 'to each his own' and the presumption of liberty. I am a strong anti-statist, and I am amenable to anarchism but also open to panarchistic and other polycentric alternatives. I think the state/anarchy dichotomy is a false one.

My biggest influences are Robert Nisbet, Ludwig von Mises, John Kekes, Michael Oakeshott, Edmund Burke, Anthony de Jasay, Gerald Gaus, Russell Hardin and David Schmidtz.

 

[ScottBot]

Do Socialist Libertarians count?

Describe what a "scoialist libertarian" is. Sounds like "jumbo shrimp" or "deafening silence".

 

[ScottBot]

I already have an intro-thread, but I thought I'd introduce myself to the libertarians.

I'm Alice, and I've had an interest in political theory and economics for about five years now. I adopted a 'libertarian' position for both consequentialist and principled reasons. I don't think there is any alternative to a market economy for the rational allocation of scarce resources and no gain to regulation, taxation or socialization. The principled side of it is that I don't think justice is 'merit' or even morality (dep. on what you mean by it), it's the rule 'to each his own' and the presumption of liberty. I am a strong anti-statist, and I am amenable to anarchism but also open to panarchistic and other polycentric alternatives. I think the state/anarchy dichotomy is a false one.

My biggest influences are Robert Nisbet, Ludwig von Mises, John Kekes, Michael Oakeshott, Edmund Burke, Anthony de Jasay, Gerald Gaus, Russell Hardin and David Schmidtz.

I think you will fit it smashingly Alice. I am almost willing to bet that you are also a subscriber to Lew Rockwell's daily column.

Aside from your influences, I enjoying following the contemporary political musings of Dr. Ron Paul and historian Thomas DiLorenzo.

 

[Theo Lojan]

Hello, everyone, I'm Theo and I am a small-l libertarian. I hope that's okay, I just don't think the Libertarian Party is the best vehicle for my views. I'm an definitely an economic libertarian, although I'm more of a moderate on social issues. My biggest influences have been Milton Friedman and Adam Smith. I'm a college student and a member of the College Libertarians. I've taken some fire from fellow Catholics about being a libertarian, but my view is that moral decisions should be between an individual and God, not between and individual and his government. If we remove the choice to make a morally wrong choice, then we remove the possibility of doing good as well.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

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[PreachersWife2004]

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[Pommer]

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[dusky_tresses]

I typically have voted Democrat but have voted independent in the past. This is where I stand:

I believe that there should be a smaller government but not a "small" government. I would list the reasons for why I think the government should be larger (but not as large as Democrats typically want them to be) but right now... it's late. Lol. What do I think about government spending? It's out of control. Whatever happened to adhering to budgets, not taxing people to death, and seriously, "sin tax"? I agree with taxing cigarettes and alcohol as they are, from a scientific and medical standpoint toxins that you don't need to survive (and from where I live, Gov. Pawlenty has approved these taxes as well), but taxing candy? Chips? Wouldn't this have an economic disadvantage to the businesses the rely on consumers purchasing these items, such as movie theaters?

As far as moral issues-- I find myself disagreeing more and more with abortion mostly from a medical standpoint, but is it wise to have the government ban abortion completely? I look at countries such as Belgium and the Netherlands which have even more liberal laws regarding abortion yet have much lower rates than we do here in the U.S. I don't like abortion...I think it's a huge social problem, but is outright banning it the best thing to do? Like Theo mentioned, I find myself more moderate on social issues. Do I completely agree with gay marriage? Hmm...in some ways, the gay marriage issue has some parallels with interracial marriage issues from back in the day. I am not saying that being gay and being in an interracial marriage is the same, but there are many similarities that I can't quite ignore. As someone who is in an interracial marriage, I can see viewpoints from both sides. I don't like knowing that gays aren't treated with humane respect, are killed simply because they are gay, or dealt with other social disadvantages. I do believe that some choices should be prohibited from a moral stance because as individuals, you should have taken the steps for behaving responsibly. Going back to abortion, I don't think it should be outright banned...but to wait until you're 6 months or later to get an abortion is outright wrong to me. By then, the fetus is capable of feeling pain and understanding sounds. I mean sometimes I want to say, didn't adoption ever occur to you? Where was birth control when you had sex? There's also alot of evidence to show the relationship between inconsistent birth control use and abortion rates.

Do I agree with the smoking bans done here in MN? Even though it had initially shown to be a detriment to businesses I do agree with it because smoking effects more people than just yourself. I find it ironic that sometimes people complain about the smoking ban saying it's interfering with their lives, but what about the life of a child who happens to live in the local area who has to breathe in that smoke without a choice? Or how about the pregnant woman whose unborn child gets exposure to terotagens before birth, and the effects on their health? I think it's worth it to get people to smoke elsewhere or cut their habit instead of risking thousands of unborn children to teratogens, which would in turn lower the costs of healthcare.

I voted for Obama, but did not ask for many of the things that he is doing right now or the way things are being handled. I honestly would have voted for McCain if it were not for Palin. No offense to anyone, but I strongly disagreed with alot of her stances. I believe McCain made strides to take a reasonable moderate stance on many issues but picked the wrong choice for VP. I honestly don't think either political party represents my views very well and often I feel forced to compromise.

 

[voiceofsoul]

If the Libertarian Party wants to come on the national level as a serious competitor to the 2 party system, I would recommend dropping the open border policy. Libertarians are special because their social liberalism is more of a "live-and-let-live" brand of liberalism, not the collectivist/facist brand that Democrats peddle. However, the open border stance is where I, and many other small 'l' libertarians break with the party. The majority of Americans, including many legal hispanics, want secure borders. The idea of letting illegals flood into the country goes completely against the libertarian principles of responsibility and self-reliance. The whole reason we have an illegal immigration problem to begin with is the welfare state. It is an outgrowth of America's parasite-enabling economic policies. The LP has to come to terms with this if it wants to be a serious contender.

 

[phenry]

I am a small 'L', Christian libertarian. Happy to meet you folks!

Grace & Peace, Allen

 

[phenry]

Is anyone here familiar with the fine work of Will Grigg?

Find his blog at freedominourtime dot blogspot dot com

Grace & Peace, Allen

 

[LordTimothytheWise]

Woot a pub for us libertarians!

 

[Zoness]

Nobody posts here.

Hi all, I am a libertarian and freshman in college, I am of voting age finally yay!