Xbox 360 Cafee/Bar (I cant make this stuff up)

[Breetai]

As we all know, you're ugly if you have bad teeth, right?
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A beautiful person with bad teeth really brings down their appearance a few notches. It's a huge turn off.

As long as their teeth don't look like British teeth, I'm good.

Personally, I find that they're worse on average.

And (the) main thing I like about Asian girls is how they tend to like video games more then girls in the US.

Where'd you get this from?

It's very true. I was amazed when I came to Asia to see as many girls as guys in the arcades and computer rooms. The gap is much smaller here.

...Christ was just a man in my opinion.

What evidence has given you that opinion?

 

[Helo]

What evidence has given you that opinion?

In my opinion, Jesus was a teacher, a preacher, possibly posessed of abilities that we might call magic today. Perhaps God spoke to him, of that I cant speak to. But I firmly believe Jesus was a MAN, not born of God or by God but of two human parents

 

[Breetai]

In my opinion, Jesus was a teacher, a preacher, possibly posessed of abilities that we might call magic today. Perhaps God spoke to him, of that I cant speak to. But I firmly believe Jesus was a MAN, not born of God or by God but of two human parents [/font]

You have given absolutely no evidence of why you conclude this, other than you refuse to believe that Jesus is God as a man.

You believe in magic?

 

[Hitokiri Battousai]

This thread is going no ware. so feel free to say whatever you want to ()

 

[Helo]

You have given absolutely no evidence of why you conclude this, other than you refuse to believe that Jesus is God as a man.

Because it just...doesnt make sense. Jesus' station in life at birth...his life...it just doesnt square with the son of a divine being.

You believe in magic?

In terms of fireballs and lightning bolts....it may be possible but youll have to show me to truly convince me. But I have seen people who were given 6 months and change to live who went through a healing ritual and made a full recovery. My ex-girlfriend could make simple headaches and small aches and pains go away by the physical laying on of hands and concentrating. Ive physically seen a woman move a cup without touching it. I dont know if you would classify any of that as magic, but I do believe in the ability to use the natural world to achieve specific goals which you might call magic.

This thread is going no ware. so feel free to say whatever you want to ()

Its called Thread Evolution, it happens

 

[Breetai]

Because it just...doesnt make sense. Jesus' station in life at birth...his life...it just doesnt square with the son of a divine being.

The point of Jesus' life was not to "act like a devine being". It was to be the savior of the world. The only way to do that was to amend for the wrongdoings, the sins, of the world (the world=all people).

From the time of the first sin, only the sacrifice of a spotless being would suffice to pay for the sins of men. Before Christ, this was a lamb. The lamb represented a pure being with pure blood. When this pure blood was shed, it would wipe clean the sins of the people. This had to be done every year, in order to cover the all of the new sins.

When Christ, who was sinless (the only sinless man ever, because he was God incarnate into man), died and shed his blood, the sins of man were forever covered. No more sacrificial lambs were needed. Jesus was the ultimate "sacrificial lamb". The most pure blood possible was shed. God accepted this pure blood as an atonement for sin. Furthermore, this Jesus rose back to life after dying. Because of this rising from death, a few things were demonstrated. First, it was shown that sin, as well as the old law, had no more power. Second, it showed that Jesus was actually God in the flesh (the Son of God, if you will). Only God has power over death. No man can give life back once it has been removed. In addition to being raised himself, Jesus also raised men from being dead before his death on the cross. As well, when Jesus died, men which had been dead for years were seen walking out of their graves. This is lightyears beyond what you were describing, as amazing those things are.

Add to all of this the fact that these events were predicted thousands of years earlier in Jewish scripture, plus you've got a large number of witnesses, many of whoms writings are still in use and have been traced back to only a couple of decades since Christ, and you've got a very strong case for Jesus being divine.

The story of Jesus squares exactly with a divine being, for only a divine being could do such things.

 

[ravendta]

This thread was not intended to be a God vs Evolution debate. Take it to the proper forum or to a PM please.

 

[Helo]

This thread was not intended to be a God vs Evolution debate. Take it to the proper forum or to a PM please.

Who's debating evolution?

Add to all of this the fact that these events were predicted thousands of years earlier in Jewish scripture, plus you've got a large number of witnesses, many of whoms writings are still in use and have been traced back to only a couple of decades since Christ, and you've got a very strong case for Jesus being divine.

Most of these whitnesses are hear-say who knew people who knew Jesus.

Besides, history tends to deify or villify someone. The bad things and little details tend to be...forgotten or changed. Its like a game of telephone, the message deteriorates as it gets passed down the line.

Its just not convincing enough as far as Im concerned

 

[christianity101]

Hey this is a chat on games not a preach about jesus thread.

anyway Why would a pagan be in the CF?

just think about time Can you explain time to somebody else? we think that everything has a beggining and an end we can believe something has a something can't have an end but we can cant beleive something can't have a beggining people believe the world was just created buy gas and space debris but it wasn't think about the impossibility of that they don't even have good hard evidence. I don't know where im going with this but all I want to say if you don't believe in god because he has no beggining and no end that wrong god just is.

anyway don't wait till the day you go to hell..Because it'll be too late

 

[Los]

I will not date an asian woman. Looks too much like my mom.

"The Emperor's gone mad for all things western" - Last Samurai

 

[Helo]

anyway Why would a pagan be in the CF?

Curiosity, debating, talking

just think about time Can you explain time to somebody else? we think that everything has a beggining and an end we can believe something has a something can't have an end but we can cant beleive something can't have a beggining people believe the world was just created buy gas and space debris but it wasn't think about the impossibility of that they don't even have good hard evidence. I don't know where im going with this but all I want to say if you don't believe in god because he has no beggining and no end that wrong god just is.

anyway don't wait till the day you go to hell..Because it'll be too late

Son, that made NO sense

 

[Breetai]

Who's debating evolution?

We aren't. I'll admit that I'm not discussing games, but then again I'm talking to a non-Christian on a Christian forum. I'm sure that discussing the basics of Christianity supercedes talking about games here. If it doesn't, then this forum has lost it's purpose.

Most of these whitnesses are hear-say who knew people who knew Jesus.

I'm talking about the witnesses mentioned by those who were also witnesses. There were hundreds of people who say them. The "hear-say" witnesses are, of course, second hand accounts. Most of these people were followers of the original witnesses.

Besides, history tends to deify or villify someone. The bad things and little details tend to be...forgotten or changed. Its like a game of telephone, the message deteriorates as it gets passed down the line.

Then why do writings we have from the first century match up with those later writings, which are dated to no earlier than around 1000 CE? The details are the very same. They have not been changed.

Its just not convincing enough as far as Im concerned

Then keep asking questions and raising objections. Look up the Christian answers, as well as the skeptics answers that counter the Christian answers, and so on. Do some hardcore research.

 

[Helo]

Ive done research and...on the surface I will agree that it looks and sounds decent but...it just...doesnt square. It just doesnt make sense. Why didnt Jesus use his power as a child of God to leave a lasting, un-deniable mark on the world like a mountain or a building? Something that NO ONE could dispute.

Its just not good enough for me.

 

[Breetai]

Ive done research and...on the surface I will agree that it looks and sounds decent but...it just...doesnt square. It just doesnt make sense. Why didnt Jesus use his power as a child of God to leave a lasting, un-deniable mark on the world like a mountain or a building? Something that NO ONE could dispute.

Its just not good enough for me.

Why would he do that? He could've, but then he would be serving himself instead of his fellow man. He would be giving glory to himself instead of to God the Father. That was his mission.

Besides, if he made a large mark like a mountain or a building, people would still deny it. Mountains can grow in a day on their own. It happens. It can be explained naturally. Rising from death cannot.

For the record, Jesus is not a "child of God". The terms "son" and "father" are simply used to explain the relationship between those two beings of God. They are the same God. Jesus was God as man.

 

[Helo]

Why would he do that? He could've, but then he would be serving himself instead of his fellow man. He would be giving glory to himself instead of to God the Father. That was his mission.

He wouldnt be bringing glory to himself, but proving his existence and power to non-believers. MUCH more convincing than a book or a few stories.

Besides, if he made a large mark like a mountain or a building, people would still deny it. Mountains can grow in a day on their own. It happens. It can be explained naturally. Rising from death cannot.

Actually rising from the dead CAN be explained. If one was not truly dead or was in a comatose or near-death state to begin with. I will be the first to admit that this is rare but it IS possible and has happened in the past. There were records of men being crucified who managed to pull themselves from the cross or who were taken down and survived. Jesus may not have been dead when he was taken down, simply in a state of deep shock from excessive pain and blood loss. Had he remained on the cross he probably would have died. But by removing him, they were able staunch the bloodflow.

Jesus may have simply got up and walked out. Which would explain the numerous sightings by various peoples. Jesus was probably not too eager to let it be known he had lived, the Romans would have snatched him up and made SURE he was dead.

For the record, Jesus is not a "child of God". The terms "son" and "father" are simply used to explain the relationship between those two beings of God. They are the same God. Jesus was God as man.

That makes no sense at all. Why would you call yourself both "son" and "father"?

 

[JacobsDream]

Actually rising from the dead CAN be explained. If one was not truly dead or was in a comatose or near-death state to begin with. I will be the first to admit that this is rare but it IS possible and has happened in the past. There were records of men being crucified who managed to pull themselves from the cross or who were taken down and survived. Jesus may not have been dead when he was taken down, simply in a state of deep shock from excessive pain and blood loss. Had he remained on the cross he probably would have died. But by removing him, they were able staunch the bloodflow.

Jesus may have simply got up and walked out. Which would explain the numerous sightings by various peoples. Jesus was probably not too eager to let it be known he had lived, the Romans would have snatched him up and made SURE he was dead.

Jesus may have this or that, that doesn't change known facts recorded about him.

Bro, think about what you are saying. There is no such thing here as "He was almost dead" or the likes. Thousands of people and hundreds of soldiers wanted and made sure he died. Do you think they are dumb enough to drag him through the city, crucify him and just take him for dead. Read the bible. When they made sure he was dead, the poked his side with a spear and punctured his lung, just to make sure. These people are not so naive. He was meant to die for you and me.

And o, he was in the grave for 3 days, and they went to annoint is corpse as long as they could. Think bro, how could he then just wake and walk away under his own power, with gashing wounds or the side, his nailed feet and hands, come on, you are more unconfortable with the whole thing than you actually have a legit argument.

We can't shove it down your throat but we hope that He touches your heart (which probably sounds obsurd to you)
Bro, you don't beleive it doesn't mean its not true. I intend no harm with my comments. Most importantly, how do you explain the miracles and experience of Christians, both then and now. Remember, the Pharisees CHOSE never to accept it, regardless. They had no legit reason not to, but they simply fought the truth the whole time and lost obviosly.

 

[Breetai]

He wouldnt be bringing glory to himself, but proving his existence and power to non-believers. MUCH more convincing than a book or a few stories.

Again, what could he have done that is MUCH more convincing than raising people from the dead, and then having himself rise from the dead? Mountains can raise naturally in a matter of hours (look it up if you want to), buildings can be built with the power of man, empires can crumble in a short time. Death cannot be defeated without God.

Actually rising from the dead CAN be explained. If one was not truly dead or was in a comatose or near-death state to begin with. I will be the first to admit that this is rare but it IS possible and has happened in the past. There were records of men being crucified who managed to pull themselves from the cross or who were taken down and survived. Jesus may not have been dead when he was taken down, simply in a state of deep shock from excessive pain and blood loss. Had he remained on the cross he probably would have died. But by removing him, they were able staunch the bloodflow.


Jesus may have simply got up and walked out. Which would explain the numerous sightings by various peoples. Jesus was probably not too eager to let it be known he had lived, the Romans would have snatched him up and made SURE he was dead.

Jesus was not treated like an orginary victim of cruxifiction. He was tortured much worse than the average victim was when they were sentenced to death this way. He was dead. What you are describing is called the Swoon theory, which states that Jesus never died on the cross. It just doesn't hold up at all, as it is a poor argument when you look at the facts. Here's an article for you to read:


The swoon theory is the theory that Jesus never really died on the cross but that He was crucified and came very close to death. It further states that after He was taken down from the cross and laid in the tomb, after three days the coolness of the tomb revived Him and He managed to, roll away the stone, out of the tomb and appear to the disciples making them think He'd risen from the dead.
The swoon theory has been thoroughly refuted by many people and very few continue to bring it up as a possibility. Nevertheless, following is an outline of why the Swoon theory can't work. Basically, it is because Jesus' ordeal was far too serious to permit Him to survive.

1. Six trials - three before Jewish officials (Annas, John 18:12-14; Caiaphas Matt 26:57-68; the Sanhedrin, Matt. 27:1-2), and three before Roman officials (Pilate, John 18:28-38; Herod, Luke 23:6-12; Pilate, John 18:39-19:6).
   1. In these trials, Jesus was beat on the face (Matt 26:67).
2. Scourging
   
   1. Scourging was done with a flagrum, a short whip with several leather strips which were either embedded with pieces of metal and glass or small metal balls were tied to the ends of the leather strips. The victim was either tied to a post or tied bent over an object with his back exposed. The person inflicting the blows had been trained on how to properly administer the beating so as to assure the most painful and damaging punishment. The whipping consisted of 39 lashes. Each lash was administered and pulled across the back so as to rip the back open. Often the back muscles were so badly shredded that the skeletal structure was exposed. People very often died from this punishment alone.
      
      Jesus suffered 39 such lashes. Undoubtedly, his back was very badly beaten and bloody.
3. Crown of thorns
   
   1. A crown of thorns was placed on the head of Jesus (Matt. 27:29). There are different thorn bushes growing in the region with thorns being very short to quite long. Even short thorns can tear the scalp. The crown was woven and then pressed down around the head ripping the skin. Bleeding would then occur.
4. Purple Robe
   
   1. Wearing a purple robe (John 19:5) may not seem like a physically harmful thing to do. But, when you consider that Jesus had just undergone a terrible scourging and that His back had been ripped open and was quite bloody and raw, the robe on His back would cause additional pain by rubbing against it. Additionally, as the blood began to congeal, it would congeal into the fabric of the robe. When the robe was ripped off, more excruciating pain would result.
5. Crucifixion
   
   1. The arms are pulled apart and nails driven through the wrist into a cross beam which is raised in place. This dislocates the shoulders. The nails in the wrists sever the median nerve resulting in a burning pain as well as paralysis in the hand. To breathe Jesus had to press up on the nails in His feet, scraping His raw back on the wood. The body gradually drains of blood causing the heart to beat faster and faster. Dehydration is occurring. The breathing becomes more labored and intense as well as frequent adding to the agony. The blood loss results in extreme thirst as the body craves water to restore the lost blood. Jesus said, "I thirst" (John 19:28). The heart beats so hard trying to compensate for the loss of oxygen (due to the lack of blood) in the body, that it eventually ruptures. At this point the chest cavity fills with fluid. The soldier pierced Jesus' side and out came blood and water, signifying that the heart had stopped beating and the blood was settling in the chest cavity. Jesus was dead.
6. Burial
   
   1. Jesus' body was wrapped in linen (Matt. 27:59). This wrapping was done tightly around the whole body from head to toe. We see from the resurrection of Lazarus, that Lazarus had to be unbound (John 12:44) since help was needed to get out of the linens.
7. Three days without medical attention in the cold tomb
   
   1. The tomb was cold and Jesus laid in it for three days without medical attention.
8. Moving the stone
   
   1. A "large stone" had been placed over the entrance to the tomb (Matt. 27:60). Unless Jesus had some help, which isn't mentioned, He would have had to move the large stone. The stone had to be large enough to cover an entrance big enough for people to walk into. Even if they ducked to get in, the stone was large enough that it would take more than one person to move it in place.
9. Presence of the guards
   
   1. The Romans guards on the tomb were given the job to guard the tomb. Since there had been rumors that the body of Jesus might be stolen, they were ready to meet the challenge. In Roman society, if the prisoner of the guard escaped, the guard would then take the prisoner's place in punishment. The guards had a strong motivation to not let anyone take the body of Jesus.
10. Walked on pierced feet to get to the disciples.
    
    1. Jesus appeared to several people after His resurrection. Does this mean He walked on feet with holes that had been made by nails several inches long?

The swoon theory falls apart quickly when you consider that Jesus had undergone six trials, been beaten, then scourged with 39 lashes that left His back raw, exposed, and bloody, had a crown of thorns forced upon His head, ripping His scalp, been crucified with nails in the hands and feet, hung there for six hours bleeding and dehydrating, had his side pierced with a spear which emitted blood and water, was left in a tomb for three days, and was tightly wrapped up. Was anyone in this condition able to revive, get himself out of the tight wrappings, walk on pierced feet, and single handedly move a large stone with hands that were unusable due to the wrist piercings which severed the median nerve in the hands and paralyzed them, and then some how got by the armed guards given the charge of watching the grave side? Are we to further believe that Jesus managed to walk a long distance on feet which had been pierced through and appear to the disciples as a victorious conqueror of death? It makes no sense. In fact, it would take more to believe this ridiculous conjecture than it would to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

That makes no sense at all. Why would you call yourself both "son" and "father"?

God is three beings, all are equally the One God. Two of these are the Father and the Son. These terms describe the relationship between the beings of God. It's not the easiest concept, but it does make sense.

An egg has three parts, the shell, the white and the yoke, yet they are all "egg". In a similar way, God is three "parts"; the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. They are all God, but they serve different functions.

 

[Helo]

Jesus was not treated like an orginary victim of cruxifiction. He was tortured much worse than the average victim was when they were sentenced to death this way. He was dead. What you are describing is called the Swoon theory, which states that Jesus never died on the cross. It just doesn't hold up at all, as it is a poor argument when you look at the facts. Here's an article for you to read:

Ive seen someone survive having dozens of 50 lb bags of concrete dropped on them. People have survived horrible accidents, torture, hell even some of the inmates who were executed took two shots to clear them out.

I will be the first to admit that its unlikely, but still possible. The human body can take ENORMOUS ammounts of abuse (trust me on this one) and still survive.

 

[JacobsDream]

Ive seen someone survive having dozens of 50 lb bags of concrete dropped on them. People have survived horrible accidents, torture, hell even some of the inmates who were executed took two shots to clear them out.[/font]

I will be the first to admit that its unlikely, but still possible. The human body can take ENORMOUS ammounts of abuse (trust me on this one) and still survive.

The issue is not whether the human body can withstand a great deal. You might have other reasons for not accepting Christianity but you are old enough to see the facts. Read my post again on what he went through and ask yourself if somebody can WALK away from it. Torture, puntured rib/lung, hanging from nails on a cross, in the grave for 3 days with hundreds of soldiers watching every step of the way, come on nobody is trying to brainwash you, it is too plain to see.
Read the bible and other books from the period. Crusifiction on a cross is to the death, not for you to suffer a little. You hang there in shame 'till you die, then they feed you to the birds or something if nobody claims your body.

You might have other reasons, like I said, but if read the crusifiction account, come on, even the most profound physicians can't explain how he would walk away.

 

[JacobsDream]

Somebody was asking why a non-christian would be here. With all due respect, we want everyone here, regardless of background or religion etc.