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X-Baptist here 4 questions

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General_Peanut

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My opinion on the whole Tithing issue if you think baptist preach on it alot you should hear what jesus has to say...he mentions giving of tithes and sacrifices all throughnout the bible. Your are right that it does say money is the root of all evil, which places even more importance on tithing, because to give up something we as humans lust for and strive for so much to continue missions and further church growth than it is even more of a sacrifice. Also tithing supplies money to missionaries who spread the word of god, to keep churches running and programs to help spread the work and continue growth within the church. Which i think is why Jesus emphasised the giving of money.
 
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JacobHall86

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I will post a reply to these questions tonite after work, although You need to clarify what you want to know about each one of these.

The Baptist Church, especially the Southern Baptist Convention is one of the only Denominations that does not make everyone subscribe to every aspect of each part of Doctrine, IE Calvininsm and Arminiasm.

1.Your Church Membership comment isnt coherent, expand and I will answer.

2. Its better not to call someone a pagan knowing they are not, its called ad hominem, and its a logical fallacy.

3. Another Ad Hom.

4. Jacob Arminius was actually a Moderate Calvinist. Research it.

5. Yea, Legalism is forsaking the Grace by still trying to adhere to the law, we dont do it.

I'll have scripture and other thigns to refute your claims better later on tonite.
 
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RajunCajun86

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and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Hebrews 10:24-25
Is that not plain enough for you “not forsaking our own assembling together”…just do it…no excuses

“R”ick Warren!
Yeah that fad is definitely not a Baptist thing it is cross denominational and I am not a huge fan anyway so there ya go

Tithing?
then it shall come about that the place in which the LORD your God will choose for His name to dwell, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution of your hand, and all your choice votive offerings which you will vow to the LORD.
Deuteronomy 12:11
You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:8
Yeah you go ahead and “rob” God of what belongs to Him and end up being like Cain and getting mad at the judgement seat because you didn’t offer what god commanded of you…just do it…no excuses

Water Baptism?
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:13-17
Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God who died and rose again, Part of the Godhead in His “Great Commission” says “Go…and…Baptizing them”, and Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God who died and rose again, Part of the Godhead was baptized…just do it…no excuses

Arminianism?
which He will bring about at the proper time--He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
1 Timothy 6:15-16
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19
God is Sovereign and in complete control but He also commands us to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them” …just do it…no excuses

Legalism?
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19
It’s not legalism it’s literal biblical theology do not “annul…the least of the commandments” or you “shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” …just do it…no excuses

It’s a shame you are not able to talk on these subjects elsewhere…cause you need to…these are not issues with Baptist these are Protestant Christian beliefs…and no not all Baptist are going to Heaven but neither are all Catholics, Penocostals, Methodists, Mormons, Non-Denominationalists, etc etc etc

FYI: Arminianism is not “partly” of God’s grace, and God does not assist He dictates who will be saved and who will not, Arminianism is an excuse to not be accountable to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations”
Arminianism states that:
Salvation can be lost
Men are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation
Works of human effort are not cause or contribution to salvation
God's election is conditional on faith in Jesus
 
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Soldat_fur_Christ

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My salvation and faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I know I'm a sinner, but I know by his grace I'm saved for believing in him.

Being baptized in the spirit, is receiving Christ and believing in him. Being baptized in the water shows that you're a believer and that you have accepted Christ as your Lord. Being baptized by water alone will not save you... but being baptized into the spirt of Christ by believing he died on the cross for your sins, and was buried, and resurrected is what gives you your salvation. It's clear in the Bible, that when you TRULLY come to faith in Christ, you cannot lose your salvation. Merely saying the words, but then going off living a life full of sin will show your not saved. Yes true Christians will still sin, but we will never become sinless as long as we are on earth. But our faith is in Christ Jesus, whom we know as our savior.

Please goto: www.gotquestions.org It'll have the answers to every question you may have. I'll post some links.

http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-security.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/license-sin.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html
 
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Hagios17

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“I joined the Baptist church because I believed that they taught just as the Bible said.” No man has a perfect system of theology and philosophy. “And what secret knowledge?” Gnosticism in its totality usually refers to a secrete knowledge outside of God’s already revealed truth (Scriptures) for the gaining of so-called truth. The scriptures are regarded as a mystery that needs solving. This sort of view is very popular amongst Christians, but a plain heresy, as revelation needs no revealing. God’s revealed wisdom (Logos) is not a mystery. The scriptures are God’s finished work alone. And if one is to add to the Bible with any foreign doctrine then one is in a Gnostic state of mind. To state that the non-spiritual decree of Temple bondage (membership) holds any relevance, especially to young believers new to the faith is Tyranny, as one in such a state is easily persuaded to join into this bondage for sake of a little more revealed knowledge on Temple matters. Church membership limits the ability of an already member of the body of Christ. There is no need to establish a second holy and divine decree of membership to the body of Christ, if it materialistic and holds no scriptural bases. Such things are hindrances from the freedom in Christ. And are certainly Gnostic.

“I have no use for Rick Warren. You shouldn't judge all by one. What if all people judged Christians by the actions of the P.T.L.'s pastor Jim Baker. Or Jimmy Swagartt?” I totally agree The Bible is the only and ultimate authority... even over The Purpose Driven Life.


“Where is tithing prohibited? Remember the widow’s mite? She was giving to the church treasury.” Jesus does not establish a doctrine of tithing in this passage. The widow was an example of sacrifice… selflessness. That’s all.


“Jesus is our example, since he was baptized in water, should not we?” Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do; otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.

”Contrary to popular belief, many, many Baptist do not subscribe to these beliefs. Monergism is what we adhere to.”
Yes, I am also monergistic (Only God effects an individual’s salvation; he is the author and finisher of our salvation, as men are completely dead in their sin; enslaved… in bondage to sin. Man is separated from God and wills to rather suppress the truth than understand it.) in my doctrine, but I disagree that most Baptist’s do not subscribe to Arminianism, as it emphasises free will; autonomous agency.

“Gal. 3:22-29 tells me that the law was put there to define what sin was, but when we come to faith in the Savior, we are no longer bound to the law.” Absolutely And “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. ” (1 Corinthians 6:12 ) “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:4-10)

”From one Baptist”.
Thank you brother




PHILEOEKLOGOS


Well first lets start with a quote;

"I don't want to sound too antagonistic"

Oh really, could have fooled everyone here. You came here with some ill informed idea of what Baptists believe and try to paint everyone with a broad brush, your so called "questions" are for what purpose?
I am not painting a brush over all Baptists. Baptist theology is probably some of the best, but that doesn’t mean every Baptist is a proponent of the truth.


You have invented a "Baptist" that only exists in your mind, and it doesn't even make a good strawman.
Sounds like you know every Baptist alive. Can you vouch for all?

In the future, before you refute or debate anyone on their beliefs, make sure you know what they really believe and the issues that are involved, I don't think that you have demonstrated either. (Just for example, You may want to take a look at your definition of Arminianism, their are some easily spotted errors in it)
??? Show me please.

You seem to be some type of a Calvinistic, charismatic, possibly hyper dispensational fellow with some strange ideas on what Baptists believe, possibly formed by your experiences in some wacked out Baptist church somewhere, honestly I don't know where on this forum you wouldn't find fault with what people here belive.
Neither John Calvin nor any other’s theology is perfect. Therefore scrutinise all doctrine with the Scriptures to see if it is in sound. And I must say, I am well pleased with Calvin’s theology for its validity, but I am not a follower of Calvin, I am a follower of Jesus Christ.


”I've run into Lone Ranger Christians before, they're going to "straighten us all out",” We must be so careful as to not be beguiled by subtle children of the devil. “I don't know what they will ever learn of fellowship, or of loving the brethren, but I hope better for you.” How does one fellowship and love the other brethren?

”I'll pray that you find a good church with a good pastor, and if that be heresy, make the most of it......” “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)


No need for a pastor, but thank for your concern:

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (John 6:45)




TIMBROWN


Lately Rick Warren has begun writing columns in the "Ladies Home Journal." I'm a male CNA at a nursing home. The last place I worked, they had that magazine there. And I noticed Rick's article listed on the cover. I read it.

Rick said alot about "finding your purpose" and "being spiritual" but nothing about Christ, sin or anything else of Biblical substance. If this had been a "Christian" magazine, maybe I could understand this...But this is a secular magazine. I read that column over and over hoping to see something I missed but found nothing. If I were a new ager, it would have stroked me in all the right places.

Like so many, I'm supportive of "giving as you will". The Lord loves a cheerful (greek = "hilarious") giver. If your heart is right, you will give freely...and you won't even need a calculator. I used to get so frustrated when I'd hear the tedium on Larry Burkett's program....splitting hairs on what to base your "ten percent" on. Look, if you are trying to figure what you can KEEP or what you MUST GIVE, you aren't giving with the right motive.

It's all God's, lent to us as a stewardship. Give accordingly. If we're going to demand tithing, let's tithe out of our crops and cattle too.


Wrick warren’s article from a “secular magazine”… nothing “about Christ, sin or anything else of Biblical substance”. Seams like a focus on man instead of God. Glad you see this.

Brother do you really think we owe God anything? Wasn’t Jesus’ offering enough?




TAPPANGA


“I have a few opinions on just a few things you've asked...

Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),


In my Southern Baptist church (and every chuch I've been a member of), membership (and attendance) is for fellowship, not salvation. I don't recall any pastor giving special code that visitors weren't supposed to hear.
” This is very good, but this is not an extra secrete knowledge about salvation, but the Temple matters I ma stressing. That is if Temple is relevant to a child of God.


”Wrick Warren (Bases theories on Paganism),

I'm going to assume you mean Rick Warren. Um, my church uses the Bible, not
Purpose Driven Life, as our Word. “ Some Temples use Rick Warren’s book for the interpretation of the Scriptures.

”
Tithing (Why on earth are Baptists preaching about money. Didn't they know that the love of money is the root of all evil. And that is no secret.),

You are not supposed to be money before God. Money is used in the church to reach non-believers. “ Money reaches believers??? I thought the Holy Ghost did that, and that all one was to do was… preach the gospel.

Water Baptism (Should I get circumsised too?),

Matthew 3:13-17. Good enough for Christ, good enough for me.
“Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do, otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.”



”Sorry I can't answer all of them. I have a meeting in twenty minutes I need to prepare for.” No problem
 
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Hagios17

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”Good day, Josh. I shall try to answer your questions as best I know how.” Indeed


Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),
 
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Hagios17

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DYAMN

“
find the things you do agree with and support them
 
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Hagios17

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GENERAL_PEANUT

“My opinion on the whole Tithing issue if you think Baptists preach on it allot. You should hear what Jesus has to say...he mentions giving of tithes and sacrifices all throughout the bible. Your are right that it does say money is the root of all evil, which places even more importance on tithing, because to give up something we as humans lust for and strive for so much to continue missions and further church growth than it is even more of a sacrifice. Also tithing supplies money to missionaries who spread the word of god, to keep churches running and programs to help spread the work and continue growth within the church. Which i think is why Jesus emphasised the giving of money.” Tithing is essentially an external doctrine established to provide finance for the physical Temple structure, which was neither established by Jesus or his disciples. Money does not help the spiritual body of Christ grow. There is no need to spend an arm and a leg to travel half way round the world to preach the gospel. Money is not what is owed to God, but Caesar.



HAGIOS
 
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tulc

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Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Uhmmm doesen't the scripture from Acts 10 sort of back what I said?
Get saved, get baptized. Getting baptized doesn't save you, and you can be saved and never been baptized but you asked for proof (from scripture) that getting baptized was part of joining the Church) it isn't required, but in the early Church they seemed to do it a lot.
tulc(thanks for the link, it seemed to say what I already believe)
 
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RajunCajun86

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then it shall come about that the place in which the LORD your God will choose for His name to dwell, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution of your hand, and all your choice votive offerings which you will vow to the LORD.
Deuteronomy 12:11

You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:8

what part of the above verses is hard to obey, are you just little "Cains" running around and can't do what God asks of you?
 
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RajunCajun86

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Matthew 3:13-17. Good enough for Christ, good enough for me.
“Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do, otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.”


first of all shame on you for using red letters, it would be a little different if you were right in what you are saying...secondly yes Jesus' baptism did fulfil prophecy but as a sign of public committment why wouldn't you do it...yeah you don't HAVE to to be saved but why wouldn't you i think is the bigger question are you that bent on having things your own way that you wouldn't obey THE GREAT COMMISSION...
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Matthew 28
Jesus was dunked under water by John the Baptist and called it being baptized...at His Great Ascension He told us to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"...GO and be Baptized...not that hard...just do it
 
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Ioustinos

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Hagios17 said:


You are describing Dualistic Gnosticism. I am describing a popular doctrine contained in all Gnosticisms… secrete knowledge…

I would ask you to explain how the practice of church membership is a form of Gnosticism. Plese provide proof to the assertion that Baptists give "secret knowledge" to only those who are part of the church membership. Baptist teach that salvation is through grace by faith. Nothing "secret" here, just biblical.

Hagios17 said:
Church membership is a counterfeit of the membership one has in spirit. This carnal fallacy does not recognize the fellowship of believers in freedom, but bondage. Last I heard… we are free.

Explain to me then why, if church membership is unscriptural, why churches existed in both Jerusalem and Antioch. Remember that James the brother of Jesus was the leader of the church in Jerusalem and Peter was also a leader of that congregation. Paul and Barnabas were members of the church at Antioch. How then do you say that church membership is counterfeit when it was practiced by the Apostles and the early church?

Church at Jerusalem: Acts 11:22
Church at Antioch: Acts 13:1-3

Added to that the majority of Paul's epistles (save his pastoral epistles) are addressed to various churches.

Also your freedom is in regards to spiritual bondage to sin. In that case, yes we are free. But also remember that we are now servants and bondslaves of Christ and are called to be obedient to Him.



If I am understanding your argumentation, you are stating that John and Paul were speaking of putting them out of a "spiritual" temple. If so, please explain to me how YOU or I can remove someone from a spiritual temple? Obviously the language is explicitly speaking of denying fellowship or people removing themselves from physical fellowship of the other believers (1 Cor. 5:2 and 1 John 2:19 respectively). This was a physical removal or withdrawl from a physical, local congregation or membership of believers.

Hagios17 said:
In my opinion, anyone associated with Rick Warren is either confused of the Gospel or a straight forward wolf.

Again you are brushing with too broad a brush. Rick Warren is non-denominational. He is not a Baptist nor does he hold position within any baptist convention. Therefore to site Rick Warren as a reason why you left the baptist denomination is to do so in accurately because Rick Warren does not represent baptists.





Please reread the texts. The texts plainly state that Paul and those who preach the gospel have the authority to receive money from their congregation to support themselves. What is the "carnal" thing that Paul refers to? It is money. If Paul has sown "spiritual" things (which are of far greater value) then is it so wrong or great that they reap "carnal" things (money which is of far less value)?

Jesaiah said:
By denying baptism you show your error in not paying attention to either the Scriptures or the history of Christianity.”
Hagios17 said:
Doctrine should not come from Church history, but the Scriptures.

Church history is found in the Scriptures. If you deny the practices of the early church then you deny a portion of church history. Please understand the value of history for the Christian faith. Our faith is historical and to deny such is to be ignorant of the truth.



While I am thankful that you admit that you need further studies, as we all do, I do find it disappointing that you do not deal with the Scriptures presented. Rather than wrestling with Scripture you refer to a manual written by your father's friend. While commentaries and study aids are helpful and have their proper use, I hope that you would first deal with Scripture rather than using manuals as a crutch. It will enrich your faith and understanding of the Word. Too often, especially with the plethora of study bibles today, Christians will read a difficult text and then quickly look at the study notes or a commentary without pondering and thinking through the Scriptures on their own.

Hagios17 said:
“Arminianism (Merging of Semi-pelagianism and the Bible: Its maxim: "It is mine to be willing to believe, and it is the part of God's grace to assist."),

Hagios17 said:
… just as you can’t lump Calvinists together. There are many variations of Calvinism. Not every Calvinist follows the Biblical doctrines of the TULIP.

Exactly! My reason for giving the fact that there were many Calvinistic Baptists refutes your assertion that Baptists are Arminian. You can't lump all Baptists together as Arminian. Do you see the point made here and that you agreed with in your quote above? If, in your opinion, you can't lump Calvinists together then how do you, sir, lump all Baptists together? You can't, right

Jesaiah said:
“Legalism can be found in multiple denominations and forms of Christianity around the world. To make the claim that only Baptists are "legalistic" is intellectually dishonest.”
Hagios17 said:
I never said that the majority of Baptist Organisations are the only of legalistic, but so are the Catholic, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, etc, etc.

And your point is? Again you stated that the reason you left the Baptist denomination was because of legalism. I was merely pointing out that legalism is found in all denominations, not only the Baptists. Maybe I misunderstood your statement, but your original post implies that you left the baptist denomination because they are the only denomination that has some legalistic congregations and members. If that was not the point of your statement then I apologize and misunderstood your point.


I hope that this has clarified some of my points.

Again without being rude, I do think you need to study more carefully the historical baptist faith more carefully. Also I hope you would study more closely the Christian faith. To deny such an important issue such as baptism is in great error, especially in light of the great witness of Scripture testifying to baptism. I will clarify that baptism does not equal salvation, but it has been a means of Christian practice and identity fromt the conception of the early church.


Blessings in your searching of the Scriptures,



Justin

 
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Erinwilcox

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Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),
What secret knowledge? Where does the Bible teach that and what church teaches that. . .mine doesn't...secret knowledge--is it some club?

Wrick Warren (Bases theories on Paganism ),
Haven't read the book, but I'm not a fan. . .

Tithing (Why on earth are Baptists preaching about money. Didn't they know that the love of money is the root of all evil. And that is no secret.),
Uh, I think that the Bible talks about tithing. . .anyhow, the pastor has to be supported somehow. . .it's not an issue in my church.

Water Baptism (Should I get circumsised too?)

We are not baptismally regeneristic--Jesus taught baptism and was our example.

Arminianism (Merging of Semi-pelagianism and the Bible: Its maxim: "It is mine to be willing to believe, and it is the part of God's grace to assist."),
Who me?!? An Arminian? I think not--my church is not either.

Legalism (strict adherence to the law??? "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12 ) )
Huh?


 
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