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would you still be a Christian...

GoldenBoy89

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If you found out there was no heaven?

If you found out, let's say through divine revelation, that there was no such thing as heaven or hell, we all just die and that's pretty much the end of it, for you at least, would you still believe in Christ?

I don't know if this is the right section for this question. If it isn't, I don't mind it being moved to the appropriate subforum.
 

TheImmortalJellyfish

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If you understand dispensationalism, we're currently living in an age of non-prophecy. Since Christians believe the Bible to be the divinely inspired Word of God and complete in canonicity, the only "divine event" we're anticipating is the resurrection of the church with Jesus Christ. Therefore, there is no divine revelation that is of God if it is not found in the Word of God.
 
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agua

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If you found out there was no heaven?

If you found out, let's say through divine revelation, that there was no such thing as heaven or hell, we all just die and that's pretty much the end of it, for you at least, would you still believe in Christ?

I don't know if this is the right section for this question. If it isn't, I don't mind it being moved to the appropriate subforum.

Not through divine revelation, but this is what the Saducees believed. Which heaven and hell are you asking about ?
 
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Tina W

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If you found out there was no heaven?

If you found out, let's say through divine revelation, that there was no such thing as heaven or hell, we all just die and that's pretty much the end of it, for you at least, would you still believe in Christ?

I don't know if this is the right section for this question. If it isn't, I don't mind it being moved to the appropriate subforum.

Yes because I would still believe we have a Creator even if His purpose for creating us was different from what I thought, He still exists. :) I will never believe that all of this came about through an accidental big bang or anything like that.
 
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Tina W

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I would still believe in the existence of Jesus but his message wouldn't make sense without Heaven.

Exactly! We still have a Creator regardless of our understanding, or lack of understanding of the purpose of it all, and you're right, none of it would make any sense without Heaven, or hell or an afterlife.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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If you found out there was no heaven?

If you found out, let's say through divine revelation, that there was no such thing as heaven or hell, we all just die and that's pretty much the end of it, for you at least, would you still believe in Christ?

I don't know if this is the right section for this question. If it isn't, I don't mind it being moved to the appropriate subforum.

From a purely visceral level my answer to this is an immediate yes. I actually find relief in the idea that there is no afterlife. Heaven isn't a source of hope for me; LIFE is. The concept of an eternity anywhere freaks me out and makes me feel like the significance of our mortal time is minimized because of its ephemeral nature in comparison. I feel panicky at the thought of heaven, not comforted by it. It also feels unfair and complex to me. The finite is infinitely more appealing to me than the infinite. I realize that from a theological perspective it's more complicated. I love Thomas Jefferson's The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth because it places the emphasis on how to model your life after the teachings of Christ. I prefer putting all thoughts and energy into this life.

I'm exhausted and just answering this candidly. I don't want to engage in any debate with anyone. If you don't agree with my post - that's fine, but please people don't argue with me about my own feelings.
 
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JackofSpades

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The concept of an eternity anywhere freaks me out and makes me feel like the significance of our mortal time is minimized because of its ephemeral nature in comparison.


Not intending to argue, but I just can't help noticing that I more often hear people being freaked out by hell than by heaven. It sounds kinda untypical way of seeing it, but I think I get the point :)

As for myself (even tho I'm not technically christian, but religious anyways): My religiousness is pretty much about focusing on this life. I think that because we afterall can't be sure what there is after death, thing that matters most is that how well my religion works in this life. If my religion doesn't bring anything real or good for me in this life, what guarantees there are that it would do so after death?

And vice versa, if it does work here and I find spiritual reality and things like connection with god, which make my life better in earthly life, that's better guarantee than anything else to me that it could possibly make things better in afterlife too. And even if it turns out that there wasn't anything there, no problem: I've lived a rich life and lost nothing in process.

Summa summarum: Eathly life is a good testing ground for religion. If it works here, there might be a point in investing in it for possible next life. If it doesn't work here, I wouldn't count on it to work elsewhere either.
 
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FireDragon76

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St. Paul said that if the dead are not raised, our faith is in vain. So no, I would not be a Christian. I would just conclude Jesus was a guy with good intentions that died and following his commandments might be nice, but something would be missing... spiritual power. And human nature being what it is, such a faith would be anemic and impotent to deal with the spiritual hunger found in the human heart.
 
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TillICollapse

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From a purely visceral level my answer to this is an immediate yes. I actually find relief in the idea that there is no afterlife. Heaven isn't a source of hope for me; LIFE is. The concept of an eternity anywhere freaks me out and makes me feel like the significance of our mortal time is minimized because of its ephemeral nature in comparison. I feel panicky at the thought of heaven, not comforted by it. It also feels unfair and complex to me. The finite is infinitely more appealing to me than the infinite. I realize that from a theological perspective it's more complicated. I love Thomas Jefferson's The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth because it places the emphasis on how to model your life after the teachings of Christ. I prefer putting all thoughts and energy into this life.

I'm exhausted and just answering this candidly. I don't want to engage in any debate with anyone. If you don't agree with my post - that's fine, but please people don't argue with me about my own feelings.
Pretty much this. I think what you feel may be a bit more common than you realize.

The idea of immortality has never appealed to me, and in fact, it has struck an uneasy fear into me from my earliest memories. I don't want to live forever in some never ending torment ... but I don't want to live forever at ALL. Never ending, never resting, never satisfied. Or what if you are satisfied and the become unsatisfied. Etc. There are so many possibilities of what may go wrong.

What I always sought, was REST. Rest from all of it. When I died, I didn't want to survive any sort of death into an after life. I just wanted to rest ... to cease being. My own childhood was somewhat of a horror, so at that time, I didn't actually appreciate life either. So I didn't want to live, but I also didn't want to die ... I wanted to rest. My earliest concepts of "God", were a being who could perhaps give me what I sought: rest. No punishment, no eternal reward, just rest.

After getting out into the world and away from the nightmares ... and experiencing love for the first time lol :) ... I began to find value in actually being alive, in the finite and the fragile. In that which could be lost or come to an end. So in some ways, I would appreciate an immortality where there are resting states, but you come "back to life" refreshed, renewed, and things are somewhat experienced "all over again". Something along those lines. So they are infinitely finite I suppose. They end, but can begin again afresh. But most people's version of "heaven" or eternity that I hear ... it seems like torment either way.
 
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Received

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You bet I would.

I'd take it a step further: with so much bad hell-bent theology, it's better to assume there isn't a heaven and take Jesus' statements of the kingdom of God, etc., as indications that were clearly meant in the New Testament: referring to this life right now -- and then take this understanding and act as if there were no afterlife. Why? Because this would make Christianity consider the need to change right now in this life, leading to a much better world, rather than a world of believers who don't really think they need to really change because of a bad understanding of grace and the belief that the real change happens exclusively after death.

I know this is against Paul's words, as one poster put above. But I think my attitude would be a needed counterbalance to so much bad theology, which ultimately makes living this life meaningless at most or at least secondary to a future at least. Either case we're missing Jesus' message: that the Kingdom of God, and therefore salvation, start right here and extend out after death.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Yes because I would still believe we have a Creator even if His purpose for creating us was different from what I thought, He still exists. :) I will never believe that all of this came about through an accidental big bang or anything like that.

What about an "on purpose" big bang, or something like that?
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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From a purely visceral level my answer to this is an immediate yes. I actually find relief in the idea that there is no afterlife. Heaven isn't a source of hope for me; LIFE is. . . . . .

This answer is fine for a lot of us, but for very many people in the world their life in this world is made up of suffering and frustration and they cannot find it to be a source of hope. For such people the hope for the afterlife can be a precious consolation.
 
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brinny

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If you found out there was no heaven?

If you found out, let's say through divine revelation, that there was no such thing as heaven or hell, we all just die and that's pretty much the end of it, for you at least, would you still believe in Christ?

I don't know if this is the right section for this question. If it isn't, I don't mind it being moved to the appropriate subforum.

What an interesting question....

Yes, i would. I do not believe in Jesus the Christ because there's a "heaven", altho' i certainly believe there is a heaven, nor do i believe because there's a hell, altho' i believe in that as well. i believe because He LOVED and LOVES me.

In your OP you did not say there would not be Christ, so i'm answering based on that. Even if there was no heaven or hell, i would still believe in Jesus Christ and my heavenly Father Who sent Him here to die for me.

Thank you kindly for the thought-provoking question.
 
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TillICollapse

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This thread makes me think:

Would you (anyone wishing to respond) become a spouse to someone and devote yourself to them and even let yourself love them if possible, knowing that they had nothing material to offer and never would (i.e. possessions, financial security, etc) ? In other words, a relationship based solely on devotion or love, and NO expectation of any kind of material security or gain ? I would think this wouldn't be that radical of a question to ask ... however ...

Now to add a twist to this ... would you enter into a devoted/spousal relationship with such a person, KNOWING that at some point in the future they would choose to be with someone else and no longer want to be with you ? But you could at least enjoy them for a time, glean whatever you were going to glean, etc ... but that ultimately it was going to end in such a way ?
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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If you understand dispensationalism, we're currently living in an age of non-prophecy. Since Christians believe the Bible to be the divinely inspired Word of God and complete in canonicity, the only "divine event" we're anticipating is the resurrection of the church with Jesus Christ. Therefore, there is no divine revelation that is of God if it is not found in the Word of God.

That's funny, since God has directly ordered me to do some things, and directly revealed a thing or so to me from time to time. So by my experience I reject your catagorical statement that there is no divine revelation if it is not found in the Word of God.

Have you never heard a pastor assert that God gave him guidance for a sermon topic?
 
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brinny

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This thread makes me think:

Would you (anyone wishing to respond) become a spouse to someone and devote yourself to them and even let yourself love them if possible, knowing that they had nothing material to offer and never would (i.e. possessions, financial security, etc) ? In other words, a relationship based solely on devotion or love, and NO expectation of any kind of material security or gain ? I would think this wouldn't be that radical of a question to ask ... however ...

Now to add a twist to this ... would you enter into a devoted/spousal relationship with such a person, KNOWING that at some point in the future they would choose to be with someone else and no longer want to be with you ? But you could at least enjoy them for a time, glean whatever you were going to glean, etc ... but that ultimately it was going to end in such a way ?

It would be a one-sided devotion? If so, what specifically would one be devoting themselves "to"?

Thank you kindly.
 
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TillICollapse

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It would be a one-sided devotion? If so, what specifically would one be devoting themselves "to"?

Thank you kindly.
I left it vague, because people devote themselves to others and love others for a wide variety of reasons. IOW, the answer to that question depends on the one asking it.

If you met someone whom you would WANT to marry, devote yourself to them, etc ... most people have some sort of set of ideals in mind when they imagine such a thing. Or a check list, or something they envision. Whomever the person is you would be considering to devote yourself to, has already done something for you, passed some muster, caused you to love them or want to devote yourself to them in the first place. That's the vague thing which would be specific to each person.

It may or may not be one-sided ... that's a perspective which depends on what causes the person answering the question to want to be devoted to another, or love them, in the first place.
 
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