Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Hmm]

Hitler's obviously a hard case because we want to see justice done but imagine that you were Hitler's mum or dad. It will be very upsetting to see what he became, that the child you loved and still do has turned his back on all that's good to such a degree. God would feel the same way only more so I believe He would do all He can to turn Hitler round and restore him. There is no reason why He can't continue to do this after his death - many informed Christians would believe this, which is not proof but means that it can't be easily dismissed as unbiblical. Hitler may have to respond to God in this and that may involve admission of his guilt and true repented. Admitting what he did would not be easy and for all I know could take a million years. He may keep saying no to God but we were all created with the stamp of God so I believe at some point this part of him will prevail and he will turn back to God.

If this makes God happy and the story if the Prodigal Son says that it would then why wouldn't we want this? He hasn't ignored the need for justice or waved His magic wand and it was as if all Hitler's crimes didn't exist or didn't count for much. Justice came at the high price of His Son's death which shows how seriously God does take our pain and suffering. The thing about universalism I like the most is that I believe it is what would make God the happiest, with my happiness admittedly coming a close second.

 

[Servus]

All that sounds really nice but I find the view that heaven wants to rehabilitate Hitler a question mark at best.

What if turns out that Hitler was demon possessed?

 

[Servus]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Since UR doesn't apply to me personally, there's not much for my ears to itch after. It's just an interesting topic.

What irks me some though, is those who seem to think that agonizing conscious eternal torment, is the only possible option in regard to justice, punishment and retribution being mete out.

 

[Hmm]

What irks me some though, is those who seem to think that agonizing conscious eternal torment, is the only possible option in regard to justice, punishment and retribution being mete out.

Do you think it might be schadenfreude: joy at other's misfortune? That's the impression I get usually. I don't think most people are all that passionate about justice but they are about who gets to go to heaven or not.

 

[Servus]

Do you think it might be schadenfreude: joy at other's misfortune? That's the impression I get usually. I don't think most people are all that passionate about justice but they are about who gets to go to heaven or not.

Sounds likely. But I wonder why it has to start at eternal torment.

 

[Hmm]

Sounds likely. But I wonder why it has to start at eternal torment.

I guess the idea of s temporary hell is not very plausible. Satan's little helpers prodding you for a certain period of time and then stopping with the satisfaction of a job well done. And then what happens to you? Do you simply vanish or burn to a cinder? It's a lot easier to imagine an eternity of hell and more enjoyable too if that's what you want (for others)

 

[Cormack]

It's pretty arrogant btw to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as speaking the words of satan. It also detracts from the case you are trying
to make.

It really does detract. The itchy ear taunt, the serpents forked tongue and the “they did it to dismiss scripture” defence should be retired (especially online.) It’s overly personal, detracts from substantive points and (because of the secretive nature of the internet) always comes from a position of ignorance.

I remember blessing one poster on Christian forums who replied “see how convincing the devil can be.” That was their return to someone blessing them. Now how’s anybody going to start up a relationship with God when they aren’t willing to relate to reality.

It’s a terrible witness and an occasion for thoroughgoing unbelievers to mock and deride the Father everywhere.

 

[Servus]

It really does detract. The itchy ear taunt, the serpents forked tongue and the “they did it to dismiss scripture” defence should be retired (especially online.) It’s overly personal, detracts from substantive points and (because of the secretive nature of the internet) always comes from a position of ignorance.

I remember blessing one poster on Christian forums who replied “see how convincing the devil can be.” That was their return to someone blessing them. Now how’s anybody going to start up a relationship with God when they aren’t willing to relate to reality.

It’s a terrible witness and an occasion for thoroughgoing unbelievers to mock and deride the Father everywhere.

I see it as an intimation tactic.

 

[Hmm]

It’s overly personal, detracts from substantive points and (because of the secretive nature of the internet) always comes from a position of ignorance.

Yes, when you say things like that you've lost the argument, the same as if you start shouting or pointing IRL.

It’s a terrible witness and an occasion for thoroughgoing unbelievers to mock and deride the Father everywhere.

It's a terrible witness. It makes Christians appear irrational and abusive to the outside world.

 

[Cormack]

I see it as an intimation tactic.

In my opinion those people should be more concerned with their own holiness and less concerned with taunting and intimidation.

So many people online have been in the Christian community for decades but have zero sense of how to interact or how to exercise self control, they don’t know how to tap into the fruits

There really needs to be a religious equivalent to “do you even lift?” Posting here so long and still no gains.

 

[Cormack]

1451 messages into the convo and there’s still no reason to prefer any of the popular Christian views over the universal restoration of all things. Make your hearts ready for some of that sweet universalist love my dudes!!!!

 

[Hmm]

There really needs to be a religious equivalent to “do you even lift?” Posting here so long and still no gains.

"Do you even do Pontius Pilates?"?

 

[GallagherM]

The point I’m trying to make here and now on earth. You can not have universalism.

You either are saved to the kingdom of God by becoming a child or son or daughter of God, now on this earth or your not saved to the kingdom, friend.

Otherwise upon leaving this earth you will be judged but you won’t be going to be with God, because of free will of never seeking God out in ones life. No one can tell me everyone believes in the true and living God, or everyone has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the best estimation of what the Bible says.

 

[GallagherM]

I don’t believe people are going to be punished forever; or go to hell, or go to lake of fire ; but they aren’t going to be near God.

That’s my view.

 

[GallagherM]

Why is that funny to you @Hmm ? If you go and read the Revelation 22 you will see there people that went into the kingdom and their was those who were outside of the kingdom. That is why I believe the way which is presented. (God is not a Despotic God) He is a just, fair, merciful God in the best estimation of what the bible presents to all people.

Adam chose freely.
Eve chose freely.
God justly and fairly ruled out the choice.
They were sent out of the Garden of Eden.

 

[Saint Steven]

I didn't define the parameters, if we don't agree that God's self-revelation is confined to what is in Scripture we don't have a common ground to stand on. In fact, if we go beyond Scripture all we're doing is speculating.

The God we believe in is bigger than a book. He is uncontainable. Granted the book is helpful. And what we believe about God should agree with the book. @Hmm already said it, "There's an awful lot of speculation when we stay within Scripture!"

 

[Hmm]

Why is that funny to you @Hmm ?

Sorry @GallagherM, I'm on my phone and must have been scrolling and accidentally hit "funny". I've removed it and apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[GallagherM]

Okay, it is fine, @Hmm.


To ALL:
Just trying to present the truth of the matter.

Universalism can not be achieved here on earth.

The point I’m trying to make here and now on earth. You can not have universalism.

You either are saved to the kingdom of God by becoming a child or son or daughter of God, now on this earth or your not saved to the kingdom, friend.

Otherwise upon leaving this earth you will be judged but you won’t be going to be with God, because of free will of never seeking God out in ones life. No one can tell me everyone believes in the true and living God, or everyone has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the best estimation of what the Bible says.

So please be careful to not deceive yourself friends... that is all my point it.

You all have a good rest of the day.

 

[Servus]

The point I’m trying to make here and now on earth. You can not have universalism.

You either are saved to the kingdom of God by becoming a child or son or daughter of God, now on this earth or your not saved to the kingdom, friend.

Otherwise upon leaving this earth you will be judged but you won’t be going to be with God, because of free will of never seeking God out in ones life. No one can tell me everyone believes in the true and living God, or everyone has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the best estimation of what the Bible says.

I've heard better arguments in favor of UR than this one against it.

 

[GallagherM]

It's hard to argue with what God has presented friend @MMXX