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Why do you think there is a denial of the flood by some that believe in Universalism? It is denied because it denies the justice and judgement of God for sin *Genesis 6:5-7 which are scriptures against Universalism. Simple as that. Yet Jesus refers to the flood as a literal event in Matthew 24:38-39 and elsewhere. Are you also agreeing with @Saint Steven that Jesus got it wrong that the world was destroyed at that time because of sin and applying it to the second coming? Your putting yourself and those who believe in the false teachings of Universalism in a bit of a pickle here.Maybe I’m missing the answerMaybe the answer was “no.” So no your faith wouldn’t break down if the flood story is an allegory. I could appreciate that.
Way to go not addressing what was asked you in the post that was written to you. Anyhow it is there for all to read and see and I can understand why you do not respond to it. I pray it will give you something to think about. You do not have to answer it if you do not want to. I will leave it between you and God. All the best.You’re assuming more onto my question than I’ve explicitly shared, @LoveGodsWord.
The question isn’t difficult and trying to presume on or guess at where the line of questioning will end just winds people up confused and feeling accusatory.
This claim has no basis in fact. The history of where the Bible came from does not support such a notion.What I am speaking to is maintaining the authority of the Bible by treating every word as important because God chose each word carefully. That God is ultimately the author of the book, even if He used human stories to weave together His points.
What's the point of having such a conversation if you want to confine the narrative to your chosen parameters? A debate about who God is should be open-ended. Otherwise we are just talking in an echo chamber and glad-handing each other. Tribal confirmation. I'm pretty sure we don't agree.How can we have a debate about who God is if we do not maintain that there is a standard to which we may both appeal for our understanding? What authority is Steven speaking from, except to elevate himself to God's seat?
Translation of the above post... Let's share our opinions but let's not talk about the scriptures which are the very standard and definition of what truth is *John 17:17.What's the point of having such a conversation if you want to confine the narrative to your chosen parameters? A debate about who God is should be open-ended. Otherwise we are just talking in an echo chamber and glad-handing each other. Tribal confirmation. I'm pretty sure we don't agree.
Saint Steven said: ↑
Where did you get the misguided idea that the Bible is the final word?
Why do you think there is a denial of the flood by some that believe in Universalism?
All I hear here is your words denying God's Word (unbelief in the flood believing the words of men over the Words of God) and the very words of Jesus. Unbelief in God's Word seems to be a common symptom of many that believe in Universalism (see post # 1402 linked). For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). Whatsoever is not of faith according to the scriptures is sin *Romans 14:23 and according to Hebrews 10:26-31 and Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. Something to pray about I guess.I think Christians of all flavours deny that the flood occured because science tells us it didn't. A devastating flood like that would have left an overwhelming amount of evidence behind that we just don't see. And it raises questions that have no sensible answers such as Where did all the water go when the flood receded?
It didn't happen and I would say that it is misreading the Bible to say that it did just as much as you would no doubt say that I am misreading it. I agree with you that the story of the flood has a spiritual meaning, I just think it's an allegory perhaps based on a smaller real life flood that did happen. There's evidence that the Mediterranean has flooded several times in history because of continental drift and the memory of this may have inspired the story of the flood.
I think Christians of all flavours deny that the flood occured because science tells us it didn't. A devastating flood like that would have left an overwhelming amount of evidence behind that we just don't see. And it raises questions that have no sensible answers such as Where did all the water go when the flood receded?
It didn't happen and I would say that it is misreading the Bible to say that it did just as much as you would no doubt say that I am misreading it. I agree with you that the story of the flood has a spiritual meaning, I just think it's an allegory perhaps based on a smaller real life flood that did happen. There's evidence that the Mediterranean has flooded several times in history because of continental drift and the memory of this may have inspired the story of the flood.
All I hear here is your words denying God's Word
There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did occur, waste of your time to go there.
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I added a link to the above post.
Thanks but that's not a peer-reviewed scientific paper so it cannot comment on what would have been a real geological event.
It is a scientific think tank that is run by scientists and has been doing professional creation research for 50 years. They have assembled a lot of evidence for the flood.
Do you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:38-39? If you do what do you think he is saying there?But you hear that because you believe you have an absolutely correct understanding of the Bible. I don't hear you denying God's word, I just think that you think it has to be literalistically as well as spiritually true.
I only quoted Genesis 3:4-5 as the same lies spoken to Eve which are the same teaching of Universalism. They are Gods' Words not mine. What is it that has been said in sharing these scriptures that is not true and if I have only told you the truth by sharing the scriptures why do you not believe them? They are Gods' Words not my words.It's pretty arrogant btw to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as speaking the words of satan. It also detracts from the case you are trying to make.
Do you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:38-39?
If you what do you think he is saying there?
They are Gods' Words not mine.
What is it that has been said in sharing these scriptures that is not true?
Their work is not reviewed by the wider scientific community and therefore they are not part of that community even though they may be scientists.
This is OT as we both agreed so let's leave it for a rainy day.
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