Would you lie to save the life of one human being?

[Crazy Liz]

Obviously, we have a difference of opinion here about teleological or deontological ethical systems.

Another way to look at this question, though, is from the perspective of whether we believe that among all the alternatives available to us at any given time, is there always one available that is morally good (IOW, not sinful)? Is a choice that appears to be between the lesser of evils always illusory? To what degree can we call a choice of the lesser of evils "good?"

I don't think we're going to resolve the teleological vs. deontological question raised by the OP without exploring these questions in more depth.

 

[TSIBHOD]

Crazy Liz, I don't think we are ever faced with a situation where our best option is a "lesser evil" of sin. Sin is acting contrary to God's will, and I believe that if God has something that He doesn't want us to do in a situation, He also has something that He wants us to do. The other possibility (which I don't really consider possible) is that God could be ambivalent about some situation, but I don't think you'll find support in scripture for the idea that God sometimes "just doesn't care."

 

[lionroar0]

I have a question. Would silence be considered lying??? Just a thought.

 

[lionroar0]

I have not read all the posts in this thread i will admit this right away. It seems to me that the OP is trying to put things in black and white. The reality of this is life is not black and white there are shades of gray.



The realisation of this is called wisdom. WHich is gained by experience. By the very gift of life that God gave us.


There is third option instead of lying and it's to stay silent.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Crazy Liz, I don't think we are ever faced with a situation where our best option is a "lesser evil" of sin. Sin is acting contrary to God's will, and I believe that if God has something that He doesn't want us to do in a situation, He also has something that He wants us to do. The other possibility (which I don't really consider possible) is that God could be ambivalent about some situation, but I don't think you'll find support in scripture for the idea that God sometimes "just doesn't care."

Tishbod, when I was your age I thought the same thing. Keep thinking that way as long as you can. If someday you find this rationale doesn't work for you anymore, then PLEASE don't give up on God.

You might want to try reading Bonhoeffer at that point.

 

[TSIBHOD]

I've read The Cost of Discipleship. What is it that changed your mind?

 

[nephilimiyr]

I totally agree with this post!! God is not ever evill, bad or deceitful. He tells you right up front the wages of sin is death. If he has to be faithful to uphold his end of the covenant between us as christians and himself then he has to be faithful to uphold his end of the covenant between sinners and himself. I believe it is Deut 28 that tells of the blessings AND the cursings. God doesn't put the curse up on people people put the curse upon themselves when they disobey God.

Put very well alex and may I add that if God is deceitful and lies then you have to say he sins.

Galatians 5:22-23, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The fruit of the Spirit that God gives us has no decietfulness or sin. If God has this in him he would also pass it off onto us yet lieing and deceit is not apart of the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I've read The Cost of Discipleship. What is it that changed your mind?

Read Ethics, Letters and Papers from Prison and a biography or two. What did he think about lying as a member of the Abwehr and about conspiring to kill Hitler?

Or you might want to do a Google search or search some academic databases for the name "Bonhoeffer" and the phrase "responsible action."

 

[SUNSTONE]

Not only would I lie.
I wouldn't confess it as sin, because I believe at that time it would be sin to lie.
Because the laws are for man, not man for the laws.

Doesn't it say in the bible, it is ok to steal some food if you "need" it, as long as you pay it back 7 fold, or something like that?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Also God Himself sent decieving spirits to a kings advisors, in order to trick the king.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Also God Himself sent decieving spirits to a kings advisors, in order to trick the king.

That is the story in 1 Kings 22 however did God really send the spirit and was it Gods intention to decieve?

 

[SUNSTONE]

I think so, I haven't read the verse in awhile.

 

[alexeeah]

That is the story in 1 Kings 22 however did God really send the spirit and was it Gods intention to decieve?

Well I read this story and from what I gather the Lord didn't send the lying spirit. The lying spirit just came to God and said "I will lie to him" and God said "Okay go do it then" so just as in the book of Job it was the evil spirit that did the lying not the Lord. (1 Kings 22:22)

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well I read this story and from what I gather the Lord didn't send the lying spirit. The lying spirit just came to God and said "I will lie to him" and God said "Okay go do it then" so just as in the book of Job it was the evil spirit that did the lying not the Lord. (1 Kings 22:22)

And that's what I would say also

 

[alaskamolly]

Oh, I just can't stay away from this thread!


Urgh...


I'll just try to keep it brief...I don't have time for this!

Well I read this story and from what I gather the Lord didn't send the lying spirit. The lying spirit just came to God and said "I will lie to him" and God said "Okay go do it then" so just as in the book of Job it was the evil spirit that did the lying not the Lord. (1 Kings 22:22)

Well, let's try that out another way.


(This is hypothetical, of course , but I think you'll see it helping to show our point)...


Bill Clinton says, "Man, boys, I really want to get rid of Bob. He drives me nuts. Anyone got any ideas how we can dump that loser?"

Bill Clinton has an employee that says, "Yeah, I got an idea. Let me go knock the guy's block off. That oughta get rid of him for good, dontcha think?"

And Clinton said, "Yeah--that's a good idea, and that'll work. Go do it."



Well, would the responsibility lie soley on the employee? Or would you say that some of the responsibility was on the head of Clinton--the employer who suggested coming up with an idea, approved the idea, and sent forth his employee to carry OUT the idea?



And understand that I'm NOT comparing God to Bill Clinton. I just used Clinton becuase most of us can't stand him, and it's easy to see that he's responsible for something like that.

Now take that same logical reasoning you used to find Clinton partly responsible (or soley, if you found him totally responsible), and use it over in 1 Kings 22.

Read the whole passage (1 Kings 22:20-22).


GOD asked for someone to go persuade King Ahab, and GOD picked and commissioned the spirit who said he'd go lie. You CANNOT seperate God from this action. It's logical suicide.

The spirit lied, sure, but WHO SENT THE LIAR? WHO APPROVED IT? WHO GAVE HIM THE COMMAND TO GO AND TELL THE LIE?

God said to the spirit, "Go forth, and do so."

Sounds pretty point blank to me. ALL lying cannot be ALWAYS ungodly, or our God would not have commissioned someone to do so.


Blessings,
Molly

 

[Daedalus]

Quote:At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

Mmm stop reading this bible, it's flawed!
Corn was introduced some 1500 years later

 

[lionroar0]

Good eye Deadalus.

Since Corn was not indeginous to that area. As far as I know corn is indigenous to the americas.

 

[Sceptile]

The question is, would you lie to protect one ear of corn?

 

[lionroar0]

Sceptile could you back up that statement with Bible verses??? lol

 

[hola]

I've read through the whole thread up to this point, (except I didn't read every post all the way through on some of the long ones).

I believe that it's wrong to lie. Even when one is confronted to deny Christ for the sake of some one else's life.

I don't recall Jesus even lying to the Pharisees or any other enemy of the gospel...even before those at his trial before his crucifixion.

Jesus didn't lie even to his accusers...

Yes, he died to save others, so he wasn't concerned about his own life or even lying. But he still didn't lie then or before that to his enemies, I can only recall him only telling the truth in any circumstance that I've read.

When did Jesus ever tell a lie, even to his enemies?

Even to Satan, he told him the truth when he was in the wilderness at Satan's attempt to tempt him.

I don't recall God ever telling a lie; no, not once.

And as someone else has posted...we know that Satan is a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44)...not God.