Would you date/marry someone with drug problems?

[LoveJC9]

AA is proven to have some sucsess with alcoholics; religion, not so much.

Personally, I think it's a little irresponsible to suggest or insinuate that if people just pray hard enough they'll be cured of their addictions; or that if one is struggling with an addiction, they're just not religious enough. Considering I am assuming you are not Dr. Drew, I have to assume that you are providing us with only anecdotal evidence and limited personal experience (one does not speak for all), and no real studies or statistical evidence to show prayer (or similar) cures addiction.

It wasn't cool when Hume told Tiger he should just become a Christian to cure his sex addiction, and it's just as uncool to advocate religion as therapy on a public forum.

I have seen God deliver people from addiction, many many times. I am not saying you just pray and sit back and do nothing. I am talking about serious deliverence.

If God can't deliver you from addiction, sin, etc. then Jesus dying on the cross was for nothing and he was crazy to be willing to die for us. The blood of Jesus can change a person. God can deliver you from demons, just like he did in the days he walked the earth.

 

[Im_A]

I have seen God deliver people from addiction, many many times. I am not saying you just pray and sit back and do nothing. I am talking about serious deliverence.

If God can't deliver you from addiction, sin, etc. then Jesus dying on the cross was for nothing and he was crazy to be willing to die for us. The blood of Jesus can change a person. God can deliver you from demons, just like he did in the days he walked the earth.

Define deliverance if you would.

I would think it would be wise to not base your views on the story of Christ based on relapses that you shared about yourself in regards to how people can cure chemical addictions. Which is why I'm curious to know how you define 'deliverance'.

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

No

 

[LoveJC9]

Define deliverance if you would.

I would think it would be wise to not base your views on the story of Christ based on relapses that you shared about yourself in regards to how people can cure chemical addictions. Which is why I'm curious to know how you define 'deliverance'.

1. The act of delivering or the condition of being delivered.
2. Rescue from bondage or danger.

 

[Im_A]

1. The act of delivering or the condition of being delivered.
2. Rescue from bondage or danger.

So that means no one is delivered...unless deliverance is temporary(which would be pretty convenient).

 

[Stravinsk]

It is an ironic thing to think that some people that claim complete addiction recovery(note this is not aimed at anyone in the thread directly since I have no way of knowing such a thing, if some people do feel it is aimed at them, well I guess the shoe fits as far as I'm concerned) nine times out of ten, or all of them, no longer hang around their crack addict friends, the bars etc. So it seems ironic that some would go the route to proclaim themselves, 'not of the norm addicts' because they've done the smart thing to take away the outside agents that will lead them to relapse.

What's ironic about it? I started using narcotics partly through peer influence - I knew this had to go when I stopped. After quitting, the first few years were *difficult* - even without the peer influence - because I often got high *alone* anyway.

One of the biggest hurdles for me was the *will* to stop. I had tried before - and had plenty of good reasons for doing so - jail, homeless, near heart attacks etc. My *will* to stop almost always faltered at some point though.

It wasn't until I had done 3½ grams of cocaine,all to myself, in one night - felt the worst I have ever felt the following morning - went to a local church and asked a pastor friend to pray for me (along with praying myself) - was I gradually delivered. In fact, I would often pray several times a day over the following years when I felt the urge - and I used the wisdom in Proverbs (such as guiding your spoken words) to influence my thinking.

I still consider it a miracle. It required effort on my part, obviously - but that effort wasn't rewarded (only for short periods) when I *tried to do it on my own*.

 

[Im_A]

What's ironic about it? I started using narcotics partly through peer influence - I knew this had to go when I stopped. After quitting, the first few years were *difficult* - even without the peer influence - because I often got high *alone* anyway.

One of the biggest hurdles for me was the *will* to stop. I had tried before - and had plenty of good reasons for doing so - jail, homeless, near heart attacks etc. My *will* to stop almost always faltered at some point though.

It wasn't until I had done 3½ grams of cocaine,all to myself, in one night - felt the worst I have ever felt the following morning - went to a local church and asked a pastor friend to pray for me (along with praying myself) - was I gradually delivered. In fact, I would often pray several times a day over the following years when I felt the urge - and I used the wisdom in Proverbs (such as guiding your spoken words) to influence my thinking.

I still consider it a miracle. It required effort on my part, obviously - but that effort wasn't rewarded (only for short periods) when I *tried to do it on my own*.

Is this the first time you quit or the relapse you mentioned earlier or is it the entire story?

The irony of this to me is, that some call it deliverance when one quits when they alienate the sources that were bringing that addiction to them. Then you have the relapse stories, then you have 'doing it alone' story. Every addict who quit their habits, has a moment when the light bulb hits and bam they change their ways. That doesn't mean the addiction isn't there, it just means you make choices to not go that way again.

 

[Trashionista]

Define deliverance if you would.

I would think it would be wise to not base your views on the story of Christ based on relapses that you shared about yourself in regards to how people can cure chemical addictions. Which is why I'm curious to know how you define 'deliverance'.

This. There's no way anecdotal evidence proves as much as statistics related to rehab programs and treatments (I guess if we want to use Zyban and tobacco as an example of drug addiction.)

Maybe religion can provide a distraction from drugs (I don't know; I've never been seriously addicted to anything besides overpriced shoes and caffeine), but to say it cures drug addiction completely seems a bit pie in the sky.

 

[Stravinsk]

Is this the first time you quit or the relapse you mentioned earlier or is it the entire story?

Oh, no. I had tried to quit *numerous* times on my own. In my youth and early adult years, I had also been to 3 rehab centres.

The irony of this to me is, that some call it deliverance when one quits when they alienate the sources that were bringing that addiction to them. Then you have the relapse stories, then you have 'doing it alone' story. Every addict who quit their habits, has a moment when the light bulb hits and bam they change their ways. That doesn't mean the addiction isn't there, it just means you make choices to not go that way again.

Peers didn't "bring" addiction to me. They *were* an influence in my getting started in using narcotics though. And they *were* an influence in my thinking towards them while I was still using. People who still get high often like to *talk up* the good times - when they had fun - not when it was seriously ruining their lives.

But as stated - for me it wasn't *just* or even *mostly* peer influence in the heart of my addiction - because I would *often* use narcotics alone.

 

[ProAntiRevolution]

Okay, so now you would be in a position where you could use coke recreationally again and wouldn't develop a problem with it again?

 

[Im_A]

Peers didn't "bring" addiction to me. They *were* an influence in my getting started in using narcotics though. And they *were* an influence in my thinking towards them while I was still using. People who still get high often like to *talk up* the good times - when they had fun - not when it was seriously ruining their lives.

What I meant was that people that provided the crack for you when you did it with other people. Yes, I know probably either you provided, they provided. I was simply they brought the rocks to you when they provided the drugs.

But as stated - for me it wasn't *just* or even *mostly* peer influence in the heart of my addiction - because I would *often* use narcotics alone.

Oh, no. I had tried to quit *numerous* times on my own. In my youth and early adult years, I had also been to 3 rehab centres.

I still don't see your point with this. Ok you did it alone, I get that. That means you did it socially and by yourself...a double whammy. You had many relapses(even though I thought there was a major relapse from the time you quit to a time not long ago that you mentioned about earlier in this discussion). So many a times you tried and tried and always relapsed and then bam you were able to finally quit. I don't see a miracle whatsoever when a man who repeatedly attempted to quit and quit, failed and failed, as he grew older, realized how much damage he was doing to himself, went to 3 centers, frustrated with quitting, which means in your conscience you really wanted to quit and finally you had enough of it all, and you decided to quit. Again that doesn't turn you from addict to a non-addict because there's no way to know that you won't go back to it like you did before correct?

I'm not meaning to down play your changes. I actually think it downplays the monumental changes you accomplished by calling it a miracle, but that may just be my opinion alone.

 

[Stravinsk]

Okay, so now you would be in a position where you could use coke recreationally again and wouldn't develop a problem with it again?

I don't dare entertain that thought. That is the kind of thinking that precipitates a major relapse. One might do it - go a few months without and think "hey, this isn't a problem, I can occassionally do this". Then *occassional* gradually turns into *habitual*.

Cocaine was my favourite drug, btw.

 

[Im_A]

This. There's no way anecdotal evidence proves as much as statistics related to rehab programs and treatments (I guess if we want to use Zyban and tobacco as an example of drug addiction.)

Maybe religion can provide a distraction from drugs (I don't know; I've never been seriously addicted to anything besides overpriced shoes and caffeine), but to say it cures drug addiction completely seems a bit pie in the sky.

My father does not claim divine intervention (he's a religious man as well) for the way he quit smoking cigarettes.

He smoked since he was I believe either 15 or 17. Then during the dissolution of his 4th marriage, he was caught by his now ex walking out, and not lighting up a cigarette. This ex-wife asked him, "Why aren't you smoking?" He said, "I quit." She asked, "How can you quit smoking at this time?"(seems a bit egocentric of her don't you think?) He said, "I just quit."

He's close to 60 now, and after all the years of trying to quit and after all the years of doing something, he just finally got tired of it and just up and quit. He may have temptation like if he's around it, even though the smell he does not enjoy but his mentality to quit supercedes the chemical addiction. He wants to quit more than whatever enjoyment he got physically, mentally from cigarettes and by the looks of it, even if he does get tempted when stressed or what not, he shows no sign of weakness.

This is kind of why I hate those words, "addict", "deliverance". They are too final if you get my point. Why can't it just be, "I quit". It could be a temporary statement, or a finalized statement, but its just a statement that best illustrates what that person chose to do to take care of the problem.

I agree with you tho. Distraction is all one gets with religion to get rid of drug addiction.

 

[Stravinsk]

What I meant was that people that provided the crack for you when you did it with other people. Yes, I know probably either you provided, they provided. I was simply they brought the rocks to you when they provided the drugs.

No, I knew where to get it - and generally the people who provided it to me were not friends and they were often strangers. And I never bought crack - I made it myself from cocaine - but that's irrelevant.

I still don't see your point with this. Ok you did it alone, I get that. That means you did it socially and by yourself...a double whammy. You had many relapses(even though I thought there was a major relapse from the time you quit to a time not long ago that you mentioned about earlier in this discussion). So many a times you tried and tried and always relapsed and then bam you were able to finally quit. I don't see a miracle whatsoever when a man who repeatedly attempted to quit and quit, failed and failed, as he grew older, realized how much damage he was doing to himself, went to 3 centers, frustrated with quitting, which means in your conscience you really wanted to quit and finally you had enough of it all, and you decided to quit. Again that doesn't turn you from addict to a non-addict because there's no way to know that you won't go back to it like you did before correct?

First, my relapse was a mistake. I was at a smokey pub and I took a drag off someone else's cigarrette that had pot mixed in it.

The point is - I was not able to quit without the help of God. I had tried to quit numerous times before. My will would always falter for some reason. Quitting for me involved alot of prayer and numerous other things, such as staying away from other drug users.

The second point is - My drug using friends were not the only reason I used narcotics - which is what your earlier post seemed to insinuate. In other words - narcotics use wasn't just a social pastime - alot of my drug abuse was when I was alone. I depended on them, with or without the influence of friends.

I'm not meaning to down play your changes. I actually think it downplays the monumental changes you accomplished by calling it a miracle, but that may just be my opinion alone.

I guess that depends on what one defines as a miracle.

 

[jameseb]

"Depends"

If they were willing to do something about correcting the problem than "yes". I would be there with them throughout helping them as well. But for the most part "no".

Too often I've tried to come to the rescue of the fairy princess battling her dragon (which can represent any number of problems) only to discover she actually can't part with it. I'll still help anyone of course, but date them? No.

 

[ProAntiRevolution]

I don't dare entertain that thought. That is the kind of thinking that precipitates a major relapse. One might do it - go a few months without and think "hey, this isn't a problem, I can occassionally do this". Then *occassional* gradually turns into *habitual*.

Cocaine was my favourite drug, btw.

And that's kind of the thing: you no longer use. If you did again you'd end back up in square one as opposed to people that aren't addicts. It's not like you've gone back to a point where the addiction is no longer a factor like a person that's never used and could very one be one of those people that toot a little coke on the weekend and that's the extent of it. I'm sure using probably isn't a daily thing anymore, a lot of recovered addicts get to that point. But the notion that it's just gone would imply you could be a recreational only user, and I think we both know that's not especially likely.

 

[Stravinsk]

And that's kind of the thing: you no longer use. If you did again you'd end back up in square one as opposed to people that aren't addicts. It's not like you've gone back to a point where the addiction is no longer a factor like a person that's never used and could very one be one of those people that toot a little coke on the weekend and that's the extent of it. I'm sure using probably isn't a daily thing anymore, a lot of recovered addicts get to that point. But the notion that it's just gone would imply you could be a recreational only user, and I think we both know that's not especially likely.

For what it's worth - I've never known anyone who started using drugs as an occassional user who could "take it or leave it" on a whim - who *didn't* either A) Decide to leave it alone entirely or B) Develop an addiction (phychological and/or physical) gradually over time. I've known occassional pot smokers who use it every once in a while - but not occassional cocaine and heroin users.

 

[Im_A]

No, I knew where to get it - and generally the people who provided it to me were not friends and they were often strangers. And I never bought crack - I made it myself from cocaine - but that's irrelevant.

So you knew where to get it, so to quit it, you had to cut off that source...we've been on the same track all along.

First, my relapse was a mistake. I was at a smokey pub and I took a drag off someone else's cigarrette that had pot mixed in it.

The point is - I was not able to quit without the help of God. I had tried to quit numerous times before. My will would always falter for some reason. Quitting for me involved alot of prayer and numerous other things, such as staying away from other drug users.

The second point is - My drug using friends were not the only reason I used narcotics - which is what your earlier post seemed to insinuate. In other words - narcotics use wasn't just a social pastime - alot of my drug abuse was when I was alone. I depended on them, with or without the influence of friends.

Ok I get that. I knew this before and I didn't mean to insinuate what came across so I do apologize.

Its just when you quit being around the people that provided you the drug(which means not going to where you knew you could find it or whatever that would mean for every specific case) and then you make choices to quit on your own because of your desire to do it by yourself, quitting doesn't mean one is not addicted to it anymore, that was the point that maybe I didn't illustrate that well and I apologize for that.

You just said it yourself in your response to ProAntiRevolution...you don't entertain those thoughts because those are major routes to relapse(which I agree with you btw...that's why I don't bother calling myself a non-smoker because I know there are going to be times, I will give in to a cigar). So with that being the case, one can't go around proclaiming that they are no longer addicted when they have to be careful with just simple thoughts and questions, no matter how moments have come that have led to long periods of not doing an addictive substance.

The ending part of course wasn't in the earlier comment due to the comment just coming up.

I guess that depends on what one defines as a miracle.

A miracle is an act defying the laws of nature

That's how I define miracle. So to play in the gods with your monumental change, to me is a disservice to what YOU did because eventually, people to crack when they are tired of doing something that they just change and it lasts longer than before, but I won't continue on any further on that one. I don't want to come across disrespectful and I don't want to tread on you right to believe what you want by trying to be so 'anti'.

 

[Im_A]

For what it's worth - I've never known anyone who started using drugs as an occassional user who could "take it or leave it" on a whim - who *didn't* either A) Decide to leave it alone entirely or B) Develop an addiction (phychological and/or physical) gradually over time. I've known occassional pot smokers who use it every once in a while - but not occassional cocaine and heroin users.

Agreed.

I did know a guy who wanted to smoke cigarettes so he would know what the addiction is like. I won't say the words that I think that guy is, but nevertheless, I'm just proud of myself to be able to get down to an occasional(once a week roughly) cigar.

 

[LoveJC9]

Again people are down playing the blood of Christ and his redemption of us on the cross. If we didn't need him for things such as this, his dying was just stupid.