Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

[Saint Steven]

That is his concluding statement regarding the resurrection. He’s not saying that nobody is dead. Jesus died, and God raised him from the dead. That should be a central part to your belief.

Death isn't a singular thing. We are all dead already.
There is spiritual death and there is spiritual life. There is physical death and physical life. And I would say that a person with cognitive abilities is still alive even though they are dead. Those 29 references to the realm of the dead in the NIV show numerous examples of this. As I have posted earlier. Yet you continue to argue. Shouldn't we apply some intellectual honesty here? If the Bible says two different things, then both are true. Whether we like it or not.

 

[Sketcher]

Why would you be something else besides Christian if there was no afterlife? Is Christianity really of no value to you in the here and now?

There's definite value that I'm getting out of it now, but there's probably more that I could get out of another religion or philosophy now. Christianity calls people to self-denial and has high moral standards, some of which I don't understand or find convenient. But I follow them anyway because I owe God my life. If there's no Heaven, Hell, or anywhere else to go to after this life, I could probably find a more understandable and convenient option. And this is for someone living in the US, where Christians aren't really persecuted. If I were to live in another country where Christians are persecuted, that would be hanging over my head as well, and I would need much better reasons to stay if the hope of Heaven or at least avoidance of Hell were to be completely done away with.

 

[Saint Steven]

There's definite value that I'm getting out of it now, but there's probably more that I could get out of another religion or philosophy now. Christianity calls people to self-denial and has high moral standards, some of which I don't understand or find convenient. But I follow them anyway because I owe God my life. If there's no Heaven, Hell, or anywhere else to go to after this life, I could probably find a more understandable and convenient option. And this is for someone living in the US, where Christians aren't really persecuted. If I were to live in another country where Christians are persecuted, that would be hanging over my head as well, and I would need much better reasons to stay if the hope of Heaven or at least avoidance of Hell were to be completely done away with.

I wonder how the lack of an afterlife might effect a relationship with God in the here and now. For instance, if there was no afterlife, would there be persecution? To what end? With no battle for our souls with the powers of darkness, how would that change things?

 

[Sketcher]

I wonder how the lack of an afterlife might effect a relationship with God in the here and now. For instance, if there was no afterlife, would there be persecution? To what end? With no battle for our souls with the powers of darkness, how would that change things?

There would still be persecution. That's how the world works, if there's a different group, it can easily become a resented group, and when a group is resented, persecution often follows. It doesn't just happen to Christians.

No battle for souls in one sense would take a load off, but it would also deflate the sense of purpose I have. Yes, doing earthly good is good to do, but there's something about being on the side of light, and of helping to bring someone from the darkness into that light, and therefore having a hand in rescuing an eternal soul which to me seems irreplaceable.

 

[Saint Steven]

There would still be persecution. That's how the world works, if there's a different group, it can easily become a resented group, and when a group is resented, persecution often follows. It doesn't just happen to Christians.

No battle for souls in one sense would take a load off, but it would also deflate the sense of purpose I have. Yes, doing earthly good is good to do, but there's something about being on the side of light, and of helping to bring someone from the darkness into that light, and therefore having a hand in rescuing an eternal soul which to me seems irreplaceable.

So, if there was no afterlife, you would not follow Christ?

 

[Sketcher]

So, if there was no afterlife, you would not follow Christ?

I would derive some value from his example, but I wouldn't take up my cross to follow him.

 

[Saint Steven]

I would derive some value from his example, but I wouldn't take up my cross to follow him.

That seems to be the majority view. Thanks for your input.
No afterlife = No Jesus

 

[pgp_protector]

Would I still live by the lifestyle & behavior I live by now? Yes.

 

[Saint Steven]

Would I still live by the lifestyle & behavior I live by now? Yes.

Welcome to the minority.
Most responders on this topic would not want to be Christians if there was no afterlife.
Therefore not seeing any value in being a Christian in the here and now.

 

[section9+1]

I do see value in this life because I see it as preparation for the next. Like there's value in education as it prepares you for your future. But if there is no future what would be the point of an education? Would you go to school and college if you knew you would die the day after graduation? This life has a purpose because it has a future. Without that promise of more to come, I wouldn't see much value in Christianity as it is now.

 

[Dkh587]

Death isn't a singular thing. We are all dead already.
There is spiritual death and there is spiritual life. There is physical death and physical life. And I would say that a person with cognitive abilities is still alive even though they are dead. Those 29 references to the realm of the dead in the NIV show numerous examples of this. As I have posted earlier. Yet you continue to argue. Shouldn't we apply some intellectual honesty here? If the Bible says two different things, then both are true. Whether we like it or not.

Humans are flesh, not spirits. We have cognitive abilities because of our brains. Without a brain, we don’t have cognitive abilities.

People who are mentally disabled are so because their brain is not properly developed. Our consciousness and I cognitive ability is based on on our brain.

we don’t exist and have conscious without a body.

showing me the NIV and how it says “the realm of the dead” doesn’t mean you have shown that humans are conscious after death.

You’re not being intellectually honest, because if we use the NIV or any other English translation to show that people are destroyed “FOREVER”, you will not accept the translation, and will run to a literal version. It’s hypocritical for you to peddle the NIV so hard for their use of the “realm of the dead”, yet reject it when it’s convenient for your argument.

You have yet to show that humans are conscious after death. The NIV saying “the realm of the dead” doesn’t prove that.

 

[Beanieboy]

Well what I'm looking for is people's motivation for being a Christian. Is it just to stay out of hell and get into heaven?

I love that you make this point. So many street preachers go to the corner, and preach this histrionic story of avoiding hell, and all you have to do is admit you are a sinner, ie a bad person, ask forgiveness, and ask Jesus into your heart - and then wait to die, I guess.

What kind of God does the street preacher worship? A God who created infallible people, who failed. He puts a temptation in the Garden of Eden, like leaving a loaded gun in the room with your 5 year old, and telling him not to touch it, because guns can kill you. After A and E sin, God sends himself, in the form of his Son, because man can't be forgiven unless there is blood, and death. And if you ask for forgiveness, ask Jesus into your heart, you will go to heaven if you die. If you don't love God, he will send you to hell where you will be tortured for eternity.

Who wouldn't want to love a God like that?

I think the question is hard to answer for sone, because without the crucifixion and paradise, what is Christianity anymore?

For me, it is far more about my day to day and how I treat others, and my relationship with God now, rather than a reward when i die

 

[Beanieboy]

I’ll never accept the misogyny, ignorant superstitious behavior, scientific illiteracy or the homophobia that some people think is Christianity The first 3 have blighted my life enough and i can see how that last damages those people’s lives for very little reason.

I think you are right in calling people out, especially some heinous things people have done looking to the bible for justification.

I don't know if that is Christianity. I can't imagine Christ doing any of those things, but rather, believe people want to do what they want, then misuse and misquote the bible to do the antithesis of what Christ taught.

Which brings me to your post and my last one - the biggest problem in Christianity today is Christians, and what they do to others - in words, in threats, in lawful oppression, and that is the Christ represented to those outside the religion.

And the question on my mind was, who enters heaven. At the Last Supper, Christ said that all men will know you are his disciples, by the love you show one another. Spoilers: We aren't.

We are seen as condemning and judgemental of others, while forgiving ourselves, or justifying our actions.
Example: in the 70s, gays fought to be added to the list protecting them against discrimination - housing, health care, employment or firing. Anita Bryant was the Poster Girl of wholesomeness, but was fighting in favor of discrimination (how twisted is that?) But saying you are prodiscrimination doesn't go well, so the call the campaign Save the Children. Now, it's about protecting the children, not discrimination. So, she is mistreating her neighbor, she is vilifying a whole group of people, she is using children to cover her evil intentions...
This is only one example. Who wouldn't be turned off by a person claiming all of it is done in the name of Jesus?

I have heard people tell me that nonbelievers don't understand that it is love. It is tough love, like disciplining a child. If the other were a child, that might make sense. But the real reason they don't understand it is love is because it isn't. I know it. The unbeliever knows it.

"Tough love" is name calling, harassment, the Kill the Gays bill because they are fighting against homosexuality - by killing people. Feel the love?

Tough love is forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it, giving without asking in return, stopping someone who begins telling a racist/mysogenist/homophobic joke, living by example rather than telling others how to live.

So, Brightmoon, in being angry and upset at the centuries of social injustice groups of power have inflicted upon others, seems more in line for heaven than so many christians I have seen that fight for that injustice, lack compassion, are the most concerned for their salvation and treat life like they are waiting for the bus

 

[Saint Steven]

Humans are flesh, not spirits. We have cognitive abilities because of our brains. Without a brain, we don’t have cognitive abilities.

That's not true. The testimony of NDEs show that people were able to recall the doctors trying to recover them. They witnessed the goings-on while hovering above their clinically dead bodies. Therefore, conscious thought apart from the brain. Not to mention the sense of sight and sound to see and hear.

 

[Dkh587]

That's not true. The testimony of NDEs show that people were able to recall the doctors trying to recover them. They witnessed the goings-on while hovering above their clinically dead bodies. Therefore, conscious thought apart from the brain. Not to mention the sense of sight and sound to see and hear.

So-called “near death experiences” are not reliable, especially when they don’t lineup with the entirety of Scripture. The mind can play all kinds of tricks on us.

 

[Saint Steven]

So-called “near death experiences” are not reliable, especially when they don’t lineup with the entirety of Scripture. The mind can play all kinds of tricks on us.

Where's the trick when you can tell the doctors what they said while they KNEW you were unconscious?

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's not true. The testimony of NDEs show that people were able to recall the doctors trying to recover them. They witnessed the goings-on while hovering above their clinically dead bodies. Therefore, conscious thought apart from the brain. Not to mention the sense of sight and sound to see and hear.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

nobody in the New Testament taught that nobody is dead.

Paul dies daily, and is killed all day long like lambs.

The Bible has different usages of 'death', clearly. In the spiritual, death can refer to either the 'Dead to God (in sins and trespasses)' or the 'Dead to self (alive to Christ, alleluja)'. Confusing, because they're contradictory, but context and faith in the God's goodness and righteousness helps us determine the import in various places.

So Paul denies some selfish temptation daily, and still is drawn into sin by the devil's lures many times over, but each time is resurrected and raised up in the Spirit, compelled by the blood of Christ and growing in grace and knowledge of Christ and him crucified.

Along those lines, imho.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Where's the trick when you can tell the doctors what they said while they KNEW you were unconscious?

I could have a pretty good guess: "The patient's died, but the operation was a success!"

That'd spook them out, especially if you came to, saying, 'Not successful just yet, doc."

Ah, hospital treatment in the age of Covid: 'Sedate him and ventilate him!'

 

[Saint Steven]

I could have a pretty good guess: "The patient's died, but the operation was a success!"

That'd spook them out, especially if you came to, saying, 'Not successful just yet, doc."

Ah, hospital treatment in the age of Covid: 'Sedate him and ventilate him!'

I think the ventilators are killing machines. I haven't heard of anyone surviving "the treatment". (they write Covid on the death certificate and give each other high fives) The medical industry is weaponized against us. The goal from the top is world depopulation. The government is paying them handsomely to exterminate us.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I think the ventilators are killing machines. I haven't heard of anyone surviving "the treatment". (they write Covid on the death certificate and give each other high fives) The medical industry is weaponized against us. The goal from the top is world depopulation. The government is paying them handsomely to exterminate us.

Yes, sedate - intubate - ventilate. Almost 100% strike rate, now for the vaxx.

And this is another reason to love God even if there's no afterlife - because He gives us the eyes to see. In fact, He gives us life itself, so what a pathetic response from so-called Christians to say it's only the promise/ threat of afterlife that keeps them going. Every breath we take is a gift from God.