Would lying be considered a sin?

[Mϋzikdϋde]

Yes, I think this is the key. The same people who will contend there is no grey area on this issue ignore Biblical examples, Rahab in particular, who lied in order help someone. Why is that?

If you really want to get some peeps riled up tell them that Jesus was technically a liar since He taught in parables. Parables aren't truth. They're stories. Is there any grey there?

That one really gets people mad.

Michelle

I like that. But I wouldn't want to encourage those who would embarrass themselves over a sarcastic remark I made.

 

[Blessed75]

Rawk on with YOUR bad self...I mean you're not so bad yourself.

Michelle

And to think that at one time, we used to be at each other's throats!

 

[aagard]

there r some extreme cases where i think it would be ok to lie and God is no fool he knows, an example would be in the days of germans wanting to kill the jews if u hide the jews it would be ok to lie about such, but lying to keep from hurting feeling is not a reason

 

[merryheart]

Lying is sin. The Lord declared it on Mount Sinai. Telling something apart from truth is lie. Saying that someone is beautiful when it could be questioned is not lying if you see past skin.

Actually... what was declared on mount Sinai was "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour " Which I have always understood to mean telling a falsehood about another person - in particular, a falsehood that gets them in legal trouble (witness being a legal term...)

 

[cat has felt the light!]

hey there,
so what have we decided is a lie, is it just any untruth?, or is it only an untruth which is meant for our own personal gain?. Can I just also ask is there really such a thing as a harmless lie? ,its surely going to decieve someone otherwise there would be no point in lying, and God is TRUTH he delights in Truth it is the Devil who delights in lies(possibly an opinion I apologise that at present this is unsupported). Well Im sure that we will all have our own views Im sure that there are some people in our lives we will feel the need to lie to but be sure that we tell God the TRUTH about our lies so that he might forgive us if necessary!
yours faithfully,
C@ xx
p:s: I agree that The Lord can inform us of when it is right for us to decieve and when it isn't
for further reading, psalm 112

 

[cat has felt the light!]

oops sorry ,
just one more thing I forgot to mention, in 1John verse 1 it says:
God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.
In my bible notes it says this word is used as a symbol of God's goodness or truth.
I like to see this as his truth meaning he never lies and I try to not lie to, though as I said before there are times when maybe for the love of our Lord we must!
does any of my rambling make sense?
sorry if it doesnt,
C@ xx

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

Someone just got repped...

Here's why (emphasis mine)

oops sorry ,
just one more thing I forgot to mention, in 1John verse 1 it says:
God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.
In my bible notes it says this word is used as a symbol of God's goodness or truth.
I like to see this as his truth meaning he never lies and I try to not lie to, though as I said before there are times when maybe for the love of our Lord we must!
does any of my rambling make sense?
sorry if it doesnt,
C@ xx

Very humble statement leaving no question as to whether you are presenting this as fact or opinion.
The Holy Spirit guides you well.

 

[geocajun]

If you really want to get some peeps riled up tell them that Jesus was technically a liar since He taught in parables. Parables aren't truth. They're stories. Is there any grey there?

That one really gets people mad.

Michelle

oooooh!! i am soo mad!!

 

[Miss Shelby]

oooooh!! i am soo mad!!

I used that example once on a similar thread back in the day when IDD was alive and well. I was a bit more refined in my delivery, I think I said something like 'Jesus spoke in parables, does that mean that He lied?' And [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] I honestly some of them were going to send a lynch mob after me.

So eat my shorts, mister.



Michelle

 

[geocajun]

technically its only a lie if someone intends to decieve - then obviously it is an offense against the virtue of truth.

CCC-2482 "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving." The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

CCC-2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man's relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

I used that example once on a similar thread back in the day when IDD was alive and well. I was a bit more refined in my delivery, I think I said something like 'Jesus spoke in parables, does that mean that He lied?' And [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] I honestly some of them were going to send a lynch mob after me.

So eat my shorts, mister.



Michelle

You know, Michelle, (may I call you Michelle?) you really got me thinking with this one. I don't think very often so bear with me here.

It is really a testimony to the ignorange of some people that they would get upset by this statement/question. There is a big difference between fiction and lie yet fiction is not truth so is it a lie? Hmmmm. The parables that Jesus used were fiction or anecdotes right? I'm relatively sure that people eventually got the picture that he was trying to teach them something.

However, who the heck are we to say the parables weren't actually true stories? Jesus is and was and will always be. He has seen a lot so He could have witnessed all the things He used in His teachings. He could have even witnessed them as future events.

[/thinking]

 

[geocajun]

the object of a parable is to teach a moral principle through a story - not deceive someone into thinking something that is not true.

Thus a parable is not a lie, and can be a morally good thing.

 

[Miss Shelby]

You know, Michelle, (may I call you Michelle?)

Yeah, sure.

It is really a testimony to the ignorange of some people that they would get upset by this statement/question. There is a big difference between fiction and lie yet fiction is not truth so is it a lie? Hmmmm. The parables that Jesus used were fiction or anecdotes right? I'm relatively sure that people eventually got the picture that he was trying to teach them something.

Right, and though my sarcasm was probably glaring in using this example, my point was directed to those who see absolutely no middle ground on this. I think that you hit the nail squarely on the head when you said that God considers our motives. Many people believe that if you lie, even protect someone from harm, it's a sinful action. That was evidenced in this thread by the response Nicole was given about lying to protect the victim of spousal abuse.

However, who the heck are we to say the parables weren't actually true stories? Jesus is and was and will always be. He has seen a lot so He could have witnessed all the things He used in His teachings. He could have even witnessed them as future events.

That's certainly an angle that I'd not considered. That being said, I believe that even if Jesus did make illustrations and analogy by using ficticious content it wouldn't matter. He didn't lie, his Parables were to teach people the way of the truth. So, if I am not going to be legalistic about the motives of the Savior, I'm not going to do with other humans. As Jason pointed out, when lying is done with the intent to deceive that is an immoral motive and would be considered sinful.

How can it be sinful if it is done to protect the welfare of someone else?

Interesting discussion.


Michelle

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

Yeah, sure.
Right, and though my sarcasm was probably glaring in using this example, my point was directed to those who see absolutely no middle ground on this.

I get sarcasm for I am sarcastic. I have often taken pleasure in the way you sarcas (that's my very own verb) and although your technique is very good, Grasshopper, mine is better.
I've been told that my posts are nothing short of sacasmic.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I get sarcasm for I am sarcastic. I have often taken pleasure in the way you sarcas (that's my very own verb) and although your technique is very good, Grasshopper, mine is better.
I've been told that my posts are nothing short of sacasmic.

I read somewhere, (can't remember where) that tact and refined manners are for people who aren't witty enough to employ sarcasm. Very profound piece of truth there.

Michelle

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

I read somewhere, (can't remember where) that tact and refined manners are for people who aren't witty enough to employ sarcasm. Very profound piece of truth there.

Michelle

Of course, they were probably being sarcastic and only people who recognize sarcasm would even understand what was being said which is a beautiful irony. All the witty people condescending to the "cultured"

Condescending means talking down to you like you don't know anything...you know, like you're a child. Do you understand that or shall I pin the definition to your shirt for future reference?

 

[DrBob]

Here is another angle to consider. If our only course of action is choose between two things both of which are sinful, doesn't it make sense to choose the lesser of the two sins?

I know it says that there is no such thing as lesser or greater sins but common sense tells you it is worse to sleep with you neighbor's wife than to lust after her in your heart.

If you have to lie to protect a life, but the spirit within you has shown you that it is a sin to betray the person's trust in you when they asked for your protection I would choose the lesser of the two sins.

As a parent we shield our children from certain truths, dissimulating the information for their protection. Is that lying? When you have adopted a child with the plan to tell them they are adopted at age 5 are you lying to them from ages 0 to 5? Or is that just WISDOM?

God gave us brains so we could use them to think and reason. The Bible is silent on many matters of contemporary life and we must think our way through them using the Bible and prayer and the wisom in the counsel of many to guide us ...

So yes there is a lot of gray in this topic as in most.

Musikdude, your sarcasm is great!

Doc

 

[mesue]

Would lying be considered a sin?

Rahab lied and God blessed her. I think it is our heart attitude and motive that God is most interested in.
Joshua 2:4

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

Here is another angle to consider. If our only course of action is choose between two things both of which are sinful, doesn't it make sense to choose the lesser of the two sins?

I know it says that there is no such thing as lesser or greater sins but common sense tells you it is worse to sleep with you neighbor's wife than to lust after her in your heart.

If you have to lie to protect a life, but the spirit within you has shown you that it is a sin to betray the person's trust in you when they asked for your protection I would choose the lesser of the two sins.

As a parent we shield our children from certain truths, dissimulating the information for their protection. Is that lying? When you have adopted a child with the plan to tell them they are adopted at age 5 are you lying to them from ages 0 to 5? Or is that just WISDOM?

God gave us brains so we could use them to think and reason. The Bible is silent on many matters of contemporary life and we must think our way through them using the Bible and prayer and the wisom in the counsel of many to guide us ...

So yes there is a lot of gray in this topic as in most.

Musikdude, your sarcasm is great!

Doc

I've never considered this angle because it's wrong...

I'm kidding! I think morality is multi faceted and the final decision as to whether or not you've sinned lies between you and God and will be communicated to you through the Holy Spirit. From there, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of posters on CF think.

 

[DrBob]

Genesis 27: 19-29

The story of how Jacob lied to his father Isaac to get the blessing of the first born!
Can anyone explain that one to me?