Would life on Mars be a problem for your religious beliefs?

[CabVet]

Nobody mentioned intelligence. Get back to choice, pavlov.

But the argument has been made that no animal has choices
so I'll go with that one for the moment.

Is Neuroscience the Death of Free Will? - NYTimes.com

Back to name calling again? Yeah, I guess nobody mentioned intelligence...

Oh, wait, I bet someone did, let me look. Here:

I was referring to intelligent choices. Little or no brain function is needed for unintelligent choices. Except for bad choices. Bad choices are much more often made by an intelligent brain overriding the normal or natural choices an animal brain would make.

In case you did not notice, those elephants are making choices, of pulling the rope at certain times, cooperating, waiting for the other to get there before they pull, etc.

 

[Elendur]

They have no choice in decision making other than instinct.
They are unable to overrule their animal reactions to their environment.
They are ruled by sub-brains with no intellect to conflict with what
their "lizard-brain" tells them to do. They have no choice.

Next we can get into
where they live,
if they get eaten,
if they get experimented on,
if they are in cages or free,
who takes care of them,
how they are treated,
if they will have offspring or not,
what environment they will live in,
how many offspring they will have,
how long they will live,
if they will take care of their children or not,
will they be good or bad,
what code of conduct will they follow,

and more choice issues.

You've clearly stated that they have no choice other than instinct. How did you determine that?

 

[The Engineer]

Interesting how multiple people will argue that God cannot be proven by science
and will dismiss entirely scientific facts directly pertaining to this "argument"
about how the issue cannot be proven.

What you said was that it's not possible to visit planets that support life, or even other star systems. How does this change the probability of the existence of life? How does it support God?

Also, you still didn't show me a source about your claim that other stars are much dimmer than your sun.

By the way, I'm also waiting for you to finally tell us whether you mean a choice, an intelligent choice, or a free will choice.

 

[OrenG]

The bible says nothing about life on other planets because it's not important. No where in the bible does it say life was only created on this planet, and it could be that somewhere out there, there is another species, or another mass group of humans living on a similar earth like planet.

So in other words, I don't think life on Mars would be anything negative or disproving to Christianity. I think if anything it would just further demonstrate the awesome power that God holds.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

The bible says nothing about life on other planets because it's not important. No where in the bible does it say life was only created on this planet, and it could be that somewhere out there, there is another species, or another mass group of humans living on a similar earth like planet.

So in other words, I don't think life on Mars would be anything negative or disproving to Christianity. I think if anything it would just further demonstrate the awesome power that God holds.

One of the main issues, I think, is that if life of some sort does exist or has existed elsewhere, then intelligent life can exist elsewhere, and that is a problem for Earth based religions.

For instance, the chances of alien intelligent life being Christian is rather remote, seeing as they would never have heard of Christ, or the garden of eden, or the fall, or any of the other stuff.

I think the real point is that intelligent life on other planets would make the story of Christ all seem a bit silly, and the contents of the Bible rather parochial and irrelevant.

 

[OrenG]

One of the main issues, I think, is that if life of some sort does exist or has existed elsewhere, then intelligent life can exist elsewhere, and that is a problem for Earth based religions.

For instance, the chances of alien intelligent life being Christian is rather remote, seeing as they would never have heard of Christ, or the garden of eden, or the fall, or any of the other stuff.

I think the real point is that intelligent life on other planets would make the story of Christ all seem a bit silly, and the contents of the Bible rather parochial and irrelevant.

There are humans on earth who do not believe in Christianity, why would life on other planets not having those beliefs present a problem, or invalidate it, anymore than human atheists do?

 

[rikerjoe]

One of the main issues, I think, is that if life of some sort does exist or has existed elsewhere, then intelligent life can exist elsewhere, and that is a problem for Earth based religions.

For instance, the chances of alien intelligent life being Christian is rather remote, seeing as they would never have heard of Christ, or the garden of eden, or the fall, or any of the other stuff.

I think the real point is that intelligent life on other planets would make the story of Christ all seem a bit silly, and the contents of the Bible rather parochial and irrelevant.

Considering it already is to a large minority, if not majority, of people on this planet, how would that make much difference? Doesn't really seem to be a major issue....

 

[Mr Strawberry]

There are humans on earth who do not believe in Christianity, why would life on other planets not having those beliefs present a problem, or invalidate it, anymore than human atheists do?

Because it won't have anything to do with them. They won't know anything about it. Intelligent life, perhaps far superior to us, may be existing all over the universe quite happily without any knowledge that God (apparently) sacrificed himself in human form on Earth because someone ate an apple. Unless you are going to start claiming that God has done the same thing on every planet where intelligent life appeared during the entire history of the universe...which begs so many questions that it all becomes even more ludicrous than it already is.

 

[OrenG]

Because it won't have anything to do with them. They won't know anything about it. Intelligent life, perhaps far superior to us, may be existing all over the universe quite happily without any knowledge that God (apparently) sacrificed himself in human form on Earth because someone ate an apple. Unless you are going to start claiming that God has done the same thing on every planet where intelligent life appeared during the entire history of the universe...which begs so many question that it all becomes even more ludicrous than it already is.

You've basically just repeated yourself and not pointed out anything earth shattering.

I'm not claiming anything, so please do not assume what I'm going to say before I say it.

I haven't said anything negative against Atheism and assumed you are the "typical Atheist" that most Christians think of, so I'd appreciate it if you'd show me the same respect and not stick me in some box before we've said so much as a few hundred words to each other.

Let's go ahead and wait for life on another planet to be discovered first, shall we?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

You've basically just repeated yourself and not pointed out anything earth shattering.

I'm not claiming anything, so please do not assume what I'm going to say before I say it.

Let's go ahead and wait for life on another planet to be discovered first, shall we?

Well, the point is fairly obvious.

 

[OrenG]

Well, the point is fairly obvious.

To an Atheist maybe, since you have already decided Christianity or any other religion is not your way, you have a bias, as I do.

However the idea that because this new species would not practice a religion invalidates the religion doesn't make any sense, even from just a human perspective. If these beings are sentient and can understand English or any other human language, assuming they are somewhat human like if not completely human, were told the gospel, and believed, what would you have to say to that?

You are assuming that this new species, if able to understand would outright not believe in any religion, my question to you is why?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

To an Atheist maybe, since you have already decided Christianity or any other religion is not your way, you have a bias, as I do.

However the idea that because this new species would not practice a religion invalidates the religion doesn't make any sense, even from just a human perspective. If these beings are sentient and can understand English, assuming they are somewhat human like if not completely human, were told the gospel, and believed, what would you have to say to that?

Is that a serious question? They will never meet us. The distances are too great. Planets bearing intelligent life may have been and gone all over the universe. Our own solar sytem is part of a third generation star: that means our sun is the third star in succession to have come together from the same clump of matter. We are just a tiny speck in time and space.

As you pointed out, Christianity is a minority religion on Earth itself, it isnt going to mean anything to a different species on a different planet. It's an Earth-centric story.

 

[OrenG]

Is that a serious question? They will never meet us. The distances are too great. Planets bearing intelligent life may have been and gone all over the universe. Our own solar sytem is part of a third generation star: that means our sun is the third possible solar sytem that has existed from the same clump of matter. We are just a tiny speck in time and space.

As you pointed out, Christianity is a minority religion on Earth itself, it isnt going to mean anything to a different species on a different planet. It's an Earth-centric story.

This is a hypothetical discussion, it's ridiculous and speculation filled intentionally. If you were looking for a serious discussion, you've come to the wrong thread.

I did not point out anything of the sort.

In 2010, there were 2.30 billion Christians in the world, an increase of 300 million from two billion in 2005. The increase in the Christian population is growing at a slightly higher rate than the world population – 1.3 percent per year, when the total world population increased with 1.2 percent. The Christian population in Asia and Africa had the highest growth with 2.6 percent and 2.4 percent, respectively, but the Christian population is declining in Europe. Although the number of Muslims and Hindus – 1.6 billion Muslims and 870 million Hindus – are less than Christians, the Muslim population has grown at a rate of 1.9 percent per year and the Hindu population has grown at a rate of 1.5 percent per year, however charismatic Christianity and independent churches are growing at the fastest, at 2.4 percent per year

 

[Mr Strawberry]

This is a hypothetical discussion, it's ridiculous and speculation filled intentionally. If you were looking for a serious discussion, you've come to the wrong thread.

I did not point out anything of the sort.

In 2010, there were 2.30 billion Christians in the world, an increase of 300 million from two billion in 2005. The increase in the Christian population is growing at a slightly higher rate than the world population – 1.3 percent per year, when the total world population increased with 1.2 percent. The Christian population in Asia and Africa had the highest growth with 2.6 percent and 2.4 percent, respectively, but the Christian population is declining in Europe. Although the number of Muslims and Hindus – 1.6 billion Muslims and 870 million Hindus – are less than Christians, the Muslim population has grown at a rate of 1.9 percent per year and the Hindu population has grown at a rate of 1.5 percent per year, however charismatic Christianity and independent churches are growing at the fastest, at 2.4 percent per year

Alright, it's a religion that a minority of the world's population believes in. The point stands.

 

[OrenG]

Alright, it's a religion that a minority of the world's population believes in. The point stands.

Uh..ok? Not sure how you see this as some huge turning point in your argument.

I never made any claims that everyone except a select few aren't Christian, nor did I even mention anything related to it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Is that a serious question? They will never meet us. The distances are too great. Planets bearing intelligent life may have been and gone all over the universe. Our own solar sytem is part of a third generation star: that means our sun is the third star in succession to have come together from the same clump of matter.

A great answer. Point of fact, even a radio signal traveling at the speed of light is unlikely to reach a planet capable of supporting life before it passes away anyhow. Or us passing away. The spiritual life is the only real option we have.

 

[SkyWriting]

What you said was that it's not possible to visit planets that support life, or even other star systems. How does this change the probability of the existence of life? How does it support God?

It has no effect on those. It negates the value of the question.
If you were an electron traveling through space looking for life
humans will be dead before you find it, and the life will be gone before
you get back to earth to inform us.

I'm pointing out the lack of value in the premise.

If we find God living on Mars in a golden mansion, will that effect what scientists believe?
Because we have a probe there, a far better question.

 

[freezerman2000]

What you said was that it's not possible to visit planets that support life, or even other star systems.

We may not be able to visit other planets that support life now, but how about in the future?
Look at the progress we made in the last century..from horse and buggy to race cars going almost 300 miles an hour.
From the Write Brothers to Neil Armstrong walking on the moon and us having a permanent space station, plus a probe that has left the solar system..All within 100 years.
Baby steps for sure, but the future is bright..Maybe within the next 100 years, we will have the capability to,(to paraphrase) Gene Roddenberry ,"To boldly go where no man has gone before."

 

[cricket0206]

Scientists think there WAS once life on Mars. Now that has got to be the coolest thing ever.

 

[Jamin4422]

I am interested if life on other planets would be a problem for your religion.

We are told that this is a living universe. The reason there is no life on other planets is because of the fall. When we receive a new Heaven and a New Earth then there will once again be life on the other planets. I would assume that at least means the planets that are about the same distance from the sun as we are. If not all the planets.