Would it be sin?!?

[Benedicta00]

I'd suggest you tell that to the Catholic gals here.

he doesn't need to.

It's not fine but necessary for me.

 

[Benedicta00]

you are inferring something I didn't say.

Then you need to re say it.

In the OT we clearly see that fertility was seen as a gift from God and infertility was lamented over.

Now you sow me where Jesus said the opposite is true? Or that the OT Jews were wrong?

 

[sunlover1]

controlling when we get pregnant is not what makes "birth control", contraception.

con·tra·cep·tion n.
Intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices, or surgical procedures.

Birth control is birth control.
Controlling when or if to concieve is taking the matter out of God's hands and He is no longer the God of the persons reproduction.

 

[Uphill Battle]

so why do non Catholic bible Christians agree?

why do some RC's disagree?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Then you need to re say it.

In the OT we clearly see that fertility was seen as a gift from God and infertility was lamented over.

Now you sow me where Jesus said the opposite is true? Or that the OT Jews were wrong?

noooooo. I only said that the fact that ancient Jews considered it a blessing to have 138 children has no bearing on a command. There is no command to have as many children that you can.

What the Jews considered a blessing, may be considered otherwise for someone else.

 

[PKnowler]

I think they need to pray about it and seek God's Will and let him lead. I do not believe in Birth control and I have had 11 children (blessings) but I do not have to walk in anyone else's shoes and I don't know what I would do if I was in their situation. God be with them.

~Paula

 

[Benedicta00]

Where did I ever say that "chemicals that abort a child" are okay?

You said our argument against ABC that acts as an abortifants, is an absurd one.

But they do objectively act as one, most of them do at least- how are we being absurd?

Do you think any of us should be useing abortifacient types of contraception?

 

[praying]

because of the mentality.

NFP is nothing. It's not a pill, it's not a thing, an object. It's our body and how our body was made.

No "B/C" is being used. Nothing is being used.

We are just choosing to abstain during infertile phases.

What would make what we do considered birth control is if we used it as such which is not to space children but becuase we have a anti baby attitude and mentality.

So there are numerous couples who only use birth control to prevent pregnancy until they are ready or to space the children, what's the difference? The net effect is the same no baby when you do not want one.

 

[Benedicta00]

noooooo. I only said that the fact that ancient Jews considered it a blessing to have 138 children has no bearing on a command. There is no command to have as many children that you can.

What the Jews considered a blessing, may be considered otherwise for someone else.

There is no command against crack cocaine either. So I guess I'm free to smoke it, huh?

There also is no command in the bible either that tells us that the bible is our sole rule of faith.

Just because there is o specific command from God, does not mean you have license to do what ever you want.

I hope I can appeal you uphill, you twist stuff in the Bible so you can hold on to your personal truths.

Please consider what I'm telling you. You are using the bible and what's not in there to believe what you want to be true.

 

[Benedicta00]

So there are numerous couples who only use birth control to prevent pregnancy until they are ready or to space the children, what's the difference? The net effect is the same no baby when you do not want one.

if you just don't want one- you are contracepting.

If you do want one but for reasons that prevent you from having one- you are postponing pregnancy.

 

[Benedicta00]

No, no. They're still inane and inapplicable words.
Castration and a vasectomy are NOT the same thing. THAT is the point.


Yes, in biblical times, being child-less was considered a curse. Also, being blind was considered a punishment, from God, for sin. So... do you go around calling blind people sinners? I doubt it.

But again, you're not giving any Scripture that says Birth Control is WRONG or SINFUL, are you? No, you're not.

So... how many children does that Catholic Church teach is the "acceptable number"?

My wife and I have 3 wonderful children - all of whom are doing great. Our nest is full. We are blessed. In addition, my wife has NOT had to resort to artificial means, such as c-sections, to bear children. Also, I love my wife enough to NOT get her pregnant now that she is in her pre-menopausal stage of life. I love her enough to NOT put her at risk, and to run the exponentially higher risk of having children with birth defects.

We are Christians, who are honoring God in our lives - including our decisions to have children, and to stop having children - and I am NOT going to sit under the arrogant condemnation of a corrupt organization. Nor will I stand quietly by while somebody arrogantly calls our sex life "marital sodomy".

Let's cut the bull.

Yes or no, do you think fertility and each child is a gift of God?

Do you consider child birth a miracle?

 

[Uphill Battle]

There is no command against crack cocaine either. So I guess I'm free to smoke it, huh?

There also is no command in the bible either that tells us that the bible is our sole rule of faith.

Just because there is o specific command from God, does not mean you have license to do what ever you want.

I hope I can appeal you uphill, you twist stuff in the Bible so you can hold on to your personal truths.

Please consider what I'm telling you. You are using the bible and what's not in there to believe what you want to be true.

sure you're free to do so. You'd have to consider the concequences though..... Besides, we have a command in the bible to avoid intoxication, and to keep our wits about us, never be in a state where we are not of sound and sober mind. (I'll look it up if neccessary.)

Please don't accuse me of twisting scripture. This is patently false. I have made no false assertions of what the bible DOES say. (for instance, Mary was zapped into heaven.....)

And The major reason that a sola scipturist remains so, is that they CANNOT trust a church that claims to be the only church of Christ, given it's track record.

Does that mean I do not think RC is a part of the body of Christ? of course not. But I do not believe that RCC is the only church, the sole arbiter, the true and only church. There is no good reason to believe it is.

 

[Benedicta00]

sure you're free to do so. You'd have to consider the concequences though..... Besides, we have a command in the bible to avoid intoxication, and to keep our wits about us, never be in a state where we are not of sound and sober mind. (I'll look it up if neccessary.)

Please don't accuse me of twisting scripture. This is patently false. I have made no false assertions of what the bible DOES say. (for instance, Mary was zapped into heaven.....)

And The major reason that a sola scipturist remains so, is that they CANNOT trust a church that claims to be the only church of Christ, given it's track record.

Does that mean I do not think RC is a part of the body of Christ? of course not. But I do not believe that RCC is the only church, the sole arbiter, the true and only church. There is no good reason to believe it is.

IMO, I think you use the bible creatively to justify your personal beliefs or to tell yourself that the Church can not possibly be true.

 

[Uphill Battle]

IMO, I think you use the bible creatively to justify your personal beliefs or to tell yourself that the Church can not possibly be true.

no... I look at the claims of the RCC, I look at the track record of the RCC, and cannot consolidate the two. The true church of Christ (if it were simply an organization) would not have behaved as it did in various points of history.

It simply would not.

 

[Benedicta00]

no... I look at the claims of the RCC, I look at the track record of the RCC, and cannot consolidate the two. The true church of Christ (if it were simply an organization) would not have behaved as it did in various points of history.

It simply would not.

and if bible only was true then Luther would have a better track record too.

I think you need to be more honest with yourself.

There are a few people in this thread who are not listening to a shred of logic posted by NON catholics just because the last thing on earth they would do is agree with the Catholic Church.

If this is not Christs' true Church than I don't what is because there is only one would want to to portray her in a bad light where no one would want anything to do with her even they know what she says about certain things are true.

if you were the enemy, would you show Christ's church in a good light so everyone would go to her?

or show everyone how bad she is so everyone will turn away?

 

[Uphill Battle]

and if bible only was true then Luther would have a better track record too.

I think you need to be more honest with yourself.

There are a few people in this thread who are not listening to a shred of logic posted by NON catholics just because the last thing on earth they would do is agree with the Catholic Church.

If this is not Christs' true Church than I don't what is because there is only one would want to to portray her in a bad light where no one would want anything to do with her even they know what she says about certain things are true.

if you were the enemy, would you show Christ's church in a good light so everyone would go to her?

or show everyone how bad she is so everyone will turn away?

I agree with RCC on a great deal.

And true, some overstate the differences between Protestantism and RCC.

However, You must remember that no protestant looks to Luther as an infallible organization. Nor did he claim to be. The RCC does.

Again, disagreeing that Mary is sinless is not portraying her in a bad light. Many protestants hold her in extremely high regard. I agree that many do not. IMHO, alot of the perceived slight is that we do not hold her to be what YOU do.

If I were the enemy, I don't think I'd change much. We're already at each others throats as it is.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Let's cut the bull.

Yes or no, do you think fertility and each child is a gift of God?

Do you consider child birth a miracle?

Yes, I consider fertility and each child a gift from God.
Yes, I consider child birth a miracle.

And yes, let's DO cut the bull - and answer these questions!

1. Why do you uphold the teachings of a Church over the teachings of the Bible?
2. Why do you believe SOME forms of birth control - specifically NFP - are okay while others are "sin".
3. What makes you think you're in a position to be a judge, when the Bible CLEARLY says both that role belongs to God & Jesus, and that humans are NOT to judge?
4. And last but not least, WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT BIRTH CONTROL IS A SIN?


Yes indeed, let's cut the bull!

 

[ParsonJefferson]

he doesn't need to.

It's not fine but necessary for me.

So you're admitting that you are sinning, and are flagrantly disobeying the teachings of your church?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

You said our argument against ABC that acts as an abortifants, is an absurd one.

But they do objectively act as one, most of them do at least- how are we being absurd?

Do you think any of us should be useing abortifacient types of contraception?

Hmmmmmm, methinks you need to re-read my posts, then stop putting words in my mouth.

I asked what YOU consider to be abortifant contraception.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

so why do non Catholic bible Christians agree?

Right back at you.

Why are there so many non-Catholic Christians that do NOT agree?


Not only are you presuming to speak for God, you're now presuming to speak for all Christians everywhere!