Would it be sin?!?

[Uphill Battle]

you are not giving yourself to your spouse. You are putting a barrier between your total self giving.

and what would abstinance be? OR NFP, for that matter?

 

[praying]

That we are to control the world's population through abortion and contraceptive or else we will use up our worlds resources... or something retarded like that.

I swear that women is Margaret Sanger reincarnated.

Well to be honest I have my doubts she said to control it with abortion (you need to provide proof of that) but if she did I am totally absolutely against that. Abortion unlike birth control is most definitely wrong.

 

[Benedicta00]

If you do not need to show anything in the bible, then you have no right to ask for it.

You are twisting the meaning ofo sola scriptura, and then trying to use it as an argument against my belief in the matter.

You are pushing the envelope again on ABC.... seeing as most forms of birth control will not do what you claim they will, such as condoms, diaphragms, etc... your true issue isn't the organs, or the chemicals, it's the BC....

My rule, is to follow the bible. I am not prohibited from using BC, therefore, I see no reason not to. Plain and simple.

Then follow it then.

Use what God gave us and that is our own biology to deal with dilemmas such as a high risk pregnancy.

Do not act like god gave you license to do what you want because he was silent on the matter.

 

[Benedicta00]

Sure I have, you said it was based on intent. If my intent is not to get pregnant this month or next month or for the next six months then I am use it as a form of birth control. My intent is not to never get pregnant just to not get pregnant now. Is it okay because it is a faulty non-reliable mehtod of birth control.

if one used for those reasons it is then birth control and a sin.

 

[Benedicta00]

and what would abstinance be? OR NFP, for that matter?

Do I have to be graphic Uphill? Do I have to draw you a picture?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Do I have to be graphic Uphill? Do I have to draw you a picture?

nah... please don't.

in NFP, I would think that you are not fully giving yourself to your spouse either.

Hubby is in the mood, but nope, bad time of the month for it..... sorry...

how is that fully giving yourself to your spouse?

 

[praying]

if one used for those reasons it is then birth control and a sin.

It must be me...so if you are not using it for those reasons why are you using it at all? We have already eliminated high risk reasons, well I asked that if it used for any other reason besides high risk then is it ok. I am getting mixed messages here.

So let me ask one more time:

Is NFP ok to use when there is no high risk reason (be that medical or financial or whatever) to avoid pregnancy?

If the answer is no, that is not what has been advocated in this thread and if the answer is yes, then what is the difference between that and any other method of birth control.

 

[Benedicta00]

Well to be honest I have my doubts she said to control it with abortion (you need to provide proof of that) but if she did I am totally absolutely against that. Abortion unlike birth control is most definitely wrong.

You are aware right that Hilliary is pro abortion, right?

She is one out of many who has pushed the united nations to provide abortions as well as contraception to the 3 rd world countries.

UNICEF donations go toward providing abortion to third world countries along with what ever else they provide.

Umm, this is no secret and why the Vatican quit giving money to UNICEF.

This is what population control is and this is the solution to world hunger. Give them abortion and contraception. They do not believe we have the ability to feed a "over" populated world.

 

[Benedicta00]

It must be me...so if you are not using it for those reasons why are you using it at all? We have already eliminated high risk reasons, well I asked that if it used for any other reason besides high risk then is it ok. I am getting mixed messages here.

So let me ask one more time:

Is NFP ok to use when there is no high risk reason (be that medical or financial or whatever) to avoid pregnancy?

If the answer is no, that is not what has been advocated in this thread and if the answer is yes, then what is the difference between that and any other method of birth control.

No it;s not okay and it is what has been advocated. What are you reading?

 

[Benedicta00]

nah... please don't.

in NFP, I would think that you are not fully giving yourself to your spouse either.

Hubby is in the mood, but nope, bad time of the month for it..... sorry...

how is that fully giving yourself to your spouse?

Well, when hubby is in the mood but realizes that pregnancy must be avoided, then hubby sacrifices himself for the greater good out of love for his wife and ocncen for her well being.

Do you see the gospel message in this now?

If hubby is in the mood and wifey and he consents to take the risk then what's wrong with that?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Where in the bible did God give permission to alter the human body with regards to fertility? How is NFP altering the body?

And YET AGAIN, absolutely NO Scriptural basis for your conviction, or your willingness to sit in the place of God and cast judgment.

Good grief, this has gotten old.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well, when hubby is in the mood but realizes that pregnancy must be avoided, then hubby sacrifices himself for the greater good out of love for his wife and ocncen for her well being.

Do you see the gospel message in this now?

If hubby is in the mood and wifey and he consents to take the risk then what's wrong with that?

nothing is wrong with it at all. I am not the one pointing the finger on any of this and yelling SIN, SIN!

However, that is not the full sharing of each other between spouses... Sorry.

 

[thereselittleflower]

If you do not need to show anything in the bible, then you have no right to ask for it.

Given this line of argumentation from UB, one has to wonder how does UB have the right to demand or ask for us to show from the bible our position on contraception if he has no need to show from the bible his position on the Holy Spirit is plainly stated in the bible?

Specifically, his position on the Holy Spirit (which is implied as he carries a CO icon from CF) that the Holy Spirit is:

• Co-Equal with the Father and the Son
• Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son
• Co-Eternally Pre-existing with the Father and the Son

?????


Clear double standards . . which are nothning more than logical fallacies in argumentation. . .


.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Uphill, I do not have to show you anything from the bible only.

I am not a sola scripturalist, but you however, are.

So therefore YOU, not me, are bound to this rule.

So show me where the bible only says we can rip out our reproductive organs and take cancer causing chemicals that have abortificant potential to control birth?

Show me where God ever said this is okay?

Heck- I'll let you out of your own rule and ask you where any Christian anywhere until the 20th century believe it was okay?

Thank you for openly admitting that you are NOT going by what the Bible says!

Another way of saying that you follow man-made teaching instead of the Bible.

And here we have the bottom line: You follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, not of the Bible.

Thank you.

 

[Uphill Battle]

How does UB have the right to demand or ask for us to show from the bible our position on contraception if he has no need to show from the bible his position on the Holy Spirit is plainly stated in the bible?

Specifically, his position on the Holy Spirit (which is implied as he carries a CO icon from CF) that the Holy Spirit is:
Co-Equal with the Father and the Son
Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son
Co-Eternally Pre-existing with the Father and the Son

?????


Clear double standards . . which are nothning more than logical fallacies in argumentation. . .


.

The Trinity is in the bible.

Commands concerning contraception are not.

Next?

 

[Benedicta00]

And YET AGAIN, absolutely NO Scriptural basis for your conviction, or your willingness to sit in the place of God and cast judgment.

Good grief, this has gotten old.

God said to be fruitful and to multiply and he said he closes and opens the womb.

Theresa has given you scripture and you ignored it which is why I do not jump to your demand to provide you scripture.

I also asked and you never did answer, what do you make of the non Catholic bible believing Christian family the "Duggar's" who have 16 children?


Have you ever watched their show on TLC? I tell you, those parents truly know how to live by the bible alone. They are the best example of how married Christians should live.

 

[Benedicta00]

The Trinity is in the bible.

Commands concerning contraception are not.

Next?

and neither is there a license to use artifical ones either.

 

[Uphill Battle]

and neither is there a license to use artifical ones either.

correct. Neither is their license to sleep in satin sheets. Neither is their license to eat pesto. Neither is their license to photograph birds. neither is their license to use a desk fan.

Your brand of biblical use would have us do absolutely nothing. It's as absurd as my examples.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

God said to be fruitful and to multiply and he said he closes and opens the womb.

Theresa has given you scripture and you ignored it which is why I do not jump to your demand to provide you scripture.

I also asked and you never did answer, what do you make of the non Catholic bible believing Christian family the "Duggar's" who have 16 children?


Have you ever watched their show on TLC? I tell you, those parents truly know how to live by the bible alone. They are the best example of how married Christians should live.

God said to be fruitful and multiply. My wife and I have done that.

God did NOT say to NOT use any form of Birth Control. That comes from the Roman Catholic Church - the same entity that condoned the Spanish Inquisition.

Theresa gave Scripture that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Birth Control!


And I have no idea what you're referring to when you're talking about "The Duggars."

 

[thereselittleflower]

nothing is wrong with it at all.

One has to wonder how UB knows this . . .

One can understand why someone would not want there to be anything wrong with artificial contraception, but simply wanting something to be true does not make it true . . .

So, one has to wonder how UB difinitively knows this, which puts his "knowing" in direct opposition to the unanimous teaching of ALL of Christianity for 1900 years . . . a teaching that has since changed in all Christian groups as they caved in, one by one, to the pressures of modernism and humanistic culture and thought . . .

All except one that is . . the Catholic Church.

I am not the one pointing the finger on any of this and yelling SIN, SIN!

We are all quite aware of this fact . . . .

How does that make artificial contraception NOT sin, contrary to the unamimous teaching of all christian churches up until 1930 when they began to cave to the pressures of humanism and modernism?

However, that is not the full sharing of each other between spouses... Sorry.

The full sharing of each other between spouses is fulfill the image of God in which we are created . .. which is to be life giving and creative.

If man and women join themselves together without any intention to have the possiblity of that union being life giving and creating, then this is an abuse of the very Image of God we are created in, which has its full expression in this life giving act of man and woman together.


.