Would it be sin?!?

[thereselittleflower]

I got news for ya.

They did.

Making claims that cannot be proven is a logical fallacy . . "assumes facts not in evidence."

One has to wonder how UB will be able to prove such an incredible and unbelievable claim, ie that Adam and Eve PERONALLY FIlLLED the earth with their own personal offspring!


Just another example of logically fallacious argumentation . . .

Again, this one is the logical fallacy of Assumes facts not in evidence.



.

 

[Benedicta00]

So what? What does that prove?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.


The Bible does NOT condemn Birth Control. Furthermore, if it did, YOU are going to hell, because YOU practice Birth Control.

Umm, I think it proves that we do not believe it because Rome said so.

For all the Non catholics out in the world and the 5 non catholics in this thread who believe that ABC is wrong- where do they get this belief from if not the bible?

Please answer me?

They claim it's biblical, so you can not keep accusing us of not being bible based, we are- you just read your bible your way and others read differently.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Jesus never said anything about being fruitful and multiply, and He also said no one can get to the Father without Him. Sounds like to me He did rescind that "commandment," because it wasnt repeated, and other commandments were.

Logical fallacy, arguing from presumed silence. . .

Jesus did not plainly state that the Holy Spirit is:

1. Co-Equal with the Father and the Son
2. Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son
3. Co-Eternally Pre-existing with the Father and the Son

Does that mean these beliefs regarding the Holy Spirit are false?


.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Making claims that cannot be proven is a logical fallacy . . "assumes facts not in evidence."

One has to wonder how UB will be able to prove such an incredible and unbelievable claim, ie that Adam and Eve PERONALLY FIlLLED the earth with their own personal offspring!


Just another example of logically fallacious argumentation . . .

Again, this one is the logical fallacy of Assumes facts not in evidence.



.

who said anything about PERSONAL offspring? Are we not all decendants of Adam and Eve?

BTW, I'd recommend you drop logic, you aren't winning the logic battle.

 

[Benedicta00]

and what is the greater good? Avoiding pregnancy? Ergo, birth control!

It's a simple connection.

So? I said I'd allow you to call it "Birth control" if you want.

But that changes nothing. We can avoid pregnancy (you call it controlling birth, so what?) if the reason to do is grave.

We are not stiffing our fertility to do it and that is the real issue here that you are, trying as you might, to smoke screen because as I said before no one can conceed anything it seems, even if does sound like truth.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I'm sorry, what?

UB evidently misssed the rest of my post as he didn't quote it, since it answers the "what", I will repost it here:

UB is being required to show that he is not engaging in a double standard, a logical fallacy, with his arguments requiring our beliefs be plainly stated in scripture when he believes that the Holy Spirit is:

1. Co-Equal with the Father and the Son
2. Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son
3. Co-Eternally Pre-existing with the Father and the Son

yet cannot produce any scripture plainly stating these things.



.

 

[praying]

what do you make of the non Catholic bible believing Christian family the "Duggar's" who have 16 children?

Well call me unChristian if you like because somewhere around 12 to 10 children ago I would told my husband get away from me.


I did have medical issues and only have two children and my husband did have a vasectomy but I know that I would not be able to emotionally nevermind financially cope with raising a classroom. I know my limits.

Have you ever watched their show on TLC? I tell you, those parents truly know how to live by the bible alone. They are the best example of how married Christians should live.

I have not but I will say in all seriousness, they are your view of how a Christian couple should live. That does not make them the ideal view nor does it make them the not ideal view. It simply means YOU (and I am sure others) admire how they live.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Umm, I think it proves that we do not believe it because Rome said so.

For all the Non catholics out in the world and the 5 non catholics in this thread who believe that ABC is wrong- where do they get this belief from if not the bible?

Please answer me?

They claim it's biblical, so you can not keep accusing us of not being bible based, we are- you just read your bible your way and others read differently.

1. I absolutely do NOT follow, nor accept, any authority from the Papacy. None whatsoever. Remember, this is the same "infallible" entity that brought us such horrors as the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc. I choose NOT to bow down to, and worship idols. I choose NOT to follow tradition rather then the Bible. Therefore, your claims of Roman authority mean absolutely nothing to me.

2. Your claim that Birth Control is a sin is self-condemning, because YOU openly admit that YOU practice birth control.

3. I am not worried whether or not non-Catholics view birth control as sin - because the Bible does NOT say that it is sin. Period.


Now... when your wife bore your babies (assuming you've had kids), did you or did you NOT go to the hospital to have these babies? And if you DID, were you NOT going against God's will, assuming that God would NOT take care of your wife and your children? Does the hospital NOT use "artificial" things, such as pain killers, oxygen, cutting of the vagina, etc.?

Why are you SO selective about what is and is not acceptable sexually - especially when you have NO biblical authority to do so?

 

[KJVisTruth]

You gotta admit that Jesus was perfectly clear on how to get to Heaven, and was this an issue for Him? I think not.

 

[Benedicta00]

You know what is the kicker here UpHill?

You are arguing with Theresa ever our biblical explanation why we feel the bible teaches against ABC?

I thought you said we get our belief from Rome and not the bible?

if that's the case then why is she arguing scripture with you and not with Paul 6's Humane Vita?

 

[Uphill Battle]

So? I said I'd allow you to call it "Birth control" if you want.

But that changes nothing. We can avoid pregnancy (you call it controlling birth, so what?) if the reason to do is grave.

We are not stiffing our fertility to do it and that is the real issue here that you are, trying as you might, to smoke screen because as I said before no one can conceed anything it seems, even if does sound like truth.

so, personal question, feel free to disregard.

You say you practice NFP.... are you doing so to avoid grave concequences, or to avoid pregnancy?

 

[thereselittleflower]

who said anything about PERSONAL offspring? Are we not all decendants of Adam and Eve?

One has to wonder what UB thought he was responding to when he said "They did."

__________________________________________________________________

#296
Today, 11:30 AM

Uphill Battle
I'm the wretch that song was talking about...
30
02:41 PM

Moderator

Debate Team
Reputation: 3,870
Health: 100%
Blessings: 354
Posts: 4,300
Referrals: 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
He gave the command to two people, Adam and Eve . .

Now, if we take what you said, and apply it, then we arrive at the totally nonsensical conclusion that Adam and Eve were to PERSONALLY fill the earth with their own offspring.

Obviously that is a nonsensical conclusion.

So, it is obvious that the command is not just to Adam and Eve, but to all their descendents as well . .

Are we descendents of Adam and Eve?


How does this FIRST command of God to man no longer apply to us then?



When did God rescind this FIRST Command?


.​

I got news for ya.

They did.
__________________________________________________________________
​

It is nonsensical, given the context of my post which was responded to with "They did.", to apply the response "They did" to anything other than Adam and Eve PERSONALLY filling the earth with their own offspring . .


This is simply an example of another logical fallacy known as "Ingoring facts in evidence."



.

 

[Benedicta00]

1. I absolutely do NOT follow, nor accept, any authority from the Papacy. None whatsoever. Remember, this is the same "infallible" entity that brought us such horrors as the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc. I choose NOT to bow down to, and worship idols. I choose NOT to follow tradition rather then the Bible. Therefore, your claims of Roman authority mean absolutely nothing to me.

2. Your claim that Birth Control is a sin is self-condemning, because YOU openly admit that YOU practice birth control.

3. I am not worried whether or not non-Catholics view birth control as sin - because the Bible does NOT say that it is sin. Period.


Now... when your wife bore your babies (assuming you've had kids), did you or did you NOT go to the hospital to have these babies? And if you DID, were you NOT going against God's will, assuming that God would NOT take care of your wife and your children? Does the hospital NOT use "artificial" things, such as pain killers, oxygen, cutting of the vagina, etc.?

Why are you SO selective about what is and is not acceptable sexually - especially when you have NO biblical authority to do so?

I was the one baring the babies. LOL.

And my point is non catholics believe it's unbiblical to practice birth control.

 

[icedtea]

So do you think that God literally wants us to fil lthe earth to the point of overcrowding and not be able to sustain oursleves? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

It has been proven the world is not at all overpopulated.
Also, if one goes according to socialist doctrine, if we quit wasting billions on war, we'd have enough to support all these large families with childrne.
if one goes by libertarianism, if Christians cared, they would help out their neighbors who have a lot of children.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You gotta admit that Jesus was perfectly clear on how to get to Heaven, and was this an issue for Him? I think not.

Scripture says women can be saved through childbearing . ..

arey you going to argue with scripture too?


.

 

[Uphill Battle]

UB evidently misssed the rest of my post as he didn't quote it, since it answers the "what", I will repost it here:

UB is being required to show that he is not engaging in a double standard, a logical fallacy, with his arguments requiring our beliefs be plainly stated in scripture when he believes that the Holy Spirit is:

1. Co-Equal with the Father and the Son
2. Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son
3. Co-Eternally Pre-existing with the Father and the Son

yet cannot produce any scripture plainly stating these things.



.

1) Please stop talking about me in the third person. It's Irritating.

2) Address the logical fallicies I showed in your argument, and then we'll talk logic.

 

[Uphill Battle]

One has to wonder what UB thought he was responding to when he said "They did."

__________________________________________________________________

#296
Today, 11:30 AM

Uphill Battle
I'm the wretch that song was talking about...
30
02:41 PM

Moderator

Debate Team
Reputation: 3,870
Health: 100%
Blessings: 354
Posts: 4,300
Referrals: 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
He gave the command to two people, Adam and Eve . .

Now, if we take what you said, and apply it, then we arrive at the totally nonsensical conclusion that Adam and Eve were to PERSONALLY fill the earth with their own offspring.

Obviously that is a nonsensical conclusion.

So, it is obvious that the command is not just to Adam and Eve, but to all their descendents as well . .

Are we descendents of Adam and Eve?


How does this FIRST command of God to man no longer apply to us then?



When did God rescind this FIRST Command?


.​

I got news for ya.

They did.
__________________________________________________________________
​

It is nonsensical, given the context of my post which was responded to with "They did.", to apply the response "They did" to anything other than Adam and Eve PERSONALLY filling the earth with their own offspring . .


This is simply an example of another logical fallacy known as "Ingoring facts in evidence."



.

I will no longer discuss logic with you until you learn what it really is.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It has been proven the world is not at all overpopulated.
Also, if one goes according to socialist doctrine, if we quit wasting billions on war, we'd have enough to support all these large families with childrne.
if one goes by libertarianism, if Christians cared, they would help out their neighbors who have a lot of children.

Exactly, the world has never been remotely close to the point of being overcroweded. . . .

That some places are does not mean the world is, or that the world is remotely close to being overcrowed.

A few years ago, the entire population of the world could fit in homes of 2000 sq feet divided in families of 4 with an acre I believe of land and all fit inside the state of Texas . . . .


Nothing remotely close to the earth being filled . . .


.

 

[KJVisTruth]

Scripture says women can be saved through childbearing . ..

arey you going to argue with scripture too?


.

Forgive me, you are taking that verse out of context, it was about going to church and women are "set aside" (saved) to give birth... and that has no bearing on the childbearing women's faith and salvation.

 

[Benedicta00]

so, personal question, feel free to disregard.

You say you practice NFP.... are you doing so to avoid grave concequences, or to avoid pregnancy?

because I had 5 c sections out of 6 and the third delivery which wa the only regular delivery almost killed me. Literally- I almost bleed to death because the uterus tore.

Anyway- I went on to have 3 other kids with NO complication at all so one just can not say they Will DIE if hey get pregnant but I also have to use wisdom and take into consideration that there is a danger and the older I get, the more kids I have, the danger is greater.

i wish i didn't have to be careful but reality is, I do and if I do ever convince again- i will trust the outcome was God will.

But what i will not do is allow my doctor to cut up my reproductive organs (she really wants me to do that). I will put all of this in God's care and where the sacrifice comes in for me and my spouse is we are sacrificing ourselves for the greater good- keeping me from risking a high risk delivery. Sterilization can not be view as a sacrifice. It's the opposite. you have it done so you do not have to sacrifice.