Would it be sin?!?

[Uphill Battle]

Ok, situation regarding a bone of contention in regards to a particular doctrine.

Most protestant denominations do not believe that family planning via birth control (whatever method) is sin.

RCC states that it is sin. (I am not aware what the EO position is on the matter.)

Now, we have a married couple, who find out after a miscarriage, that she has a condition (I forget the name of it.) that will not allow her to carry properly, the odds of bringing a live child to term is 1 in 4, and the risk of septicemic infection, twisted uterus, etc... is about the same, 1 in 4. The risks are NOT worth having a pregnancy again.

So, the husband gets a vasectomy. They are still very much in love with each other, and want to continue their sexual relationship, just not risk a dangerous pregancy.

Is the sterilization sin? (given the doctrine that it is sin, according to the RCC.)

 

[RccWarrior]

Ok, situation regarding a bone of contention in regards to a particular doctrine.

Most protestant denominations do not believe that family planning via birth control (whatever method) is sin.

RCC states that it is sin. (I am not aware what the EO position is on the matter.)

Now, we have a married couple, who find out after a miscarriage, that she has a condition (I forget the name of it.) that will not allow her to carry properly, the odds of bringing a live child to term is 1 in 4, and the risk of septicemic infection, twisted uterus, etc... is about the same, 1 in 4. The risks are NOT worth having a pregnancy again.

So, the husband gets a vasectomy. They are still very much in love with each other, and want to continue their sexual relationship, just not risk a dangerous pregancy.

Is the sterilization sin? (given the doctrine that it is sin, according to the RCC.)

Yes.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Yes.

you wouldn't care to elaborate?

 

[spiritwarrior37]

I don't believe it to be sin. If it would place either in danger, and if they have prayed and asked God to guide them, then how could it be a sin?

 

[IamAdopted]

Absolutly not..

 

[Benedicta00]

Ok, situation regarding a bone of contention in regards to a particular doctrine.

Most protestant denominations do not believe that family planning via birth control (whatever method) is sin.

RCC states that it is sin. (I am not aware what the EO position is on the matter.)

Now, we have a married couple, who find out after a miscarriage, that she has a condition (I forget the name of it.) that will not allow her to carry properly, the odds of bringing a live child to term is 1 in 4, and the risk of septicemic infection, twisted uterus, etc... is about the same, 1 in 4. The risks are NOT worth having a pregnancy again.

So, the husband gets a vasectomy. They are still very much in love with each other, and want to continue their sexual relationship, just not risk a dangerous pregancy.

Is the sterilization sin? (given the doctrine that it is sin, according to the RCC.)

Yep. The ends never justify the means.

Boy, is this going to be a fun thread...

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't believe it to be sin. If it would place either in danger, and if they have prayed and asked God to guide them, then how could it be a sin?

Because you are taking a working organ and you are mutilating it and having it stop doing what God designed and created it to do. if God wanted you sterile, he'd make you that way.

This is no way means that a woman has to become pregnant if her life is at risk.

There other ways that do not include mutilating reproductive organs to do that.

 

[KJVisTruth]

No, its not a sin.

Suppose you got sterilized, or got on birth control... do you really think its really out of God's power and control now? I dont, cuz He can do absolutely anything.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

The Scriptures also say " If thy hand offend thee, cut it off." hmmm such a dilema

 

[Theophorus]

If the couple humbled themselves before the Church of Christ and their spiritual father for direction in this matter, and he said for the husband to get a vasectomy, then it is not.

It is up to the discretion of their spiritual father to exercise economia in this instance, taking into consideration their strengths and weaknesses and their ultimate salvation.

Keep in mind that the Church, which is full of grace extends mercy, not justification.

 

[Benedicta00]

No, its not a sin.

Suppose you got sterilized, or got on birth control... do you really think its really out of God's power and control now? I dont, cuz He can do absolutely anything.

Can't argue with that logic.

let's just test God shall we?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Because you are taking a working organ and you are mutilating it and having it stop doing what God designed and created it to do. if God wanted you sterile, he'd make you that way.

This is no way means that a woman has to become pregnant if her life is at risk.

There other ways that do not include mutilating reproductive organs to do that.

I was under the impression that any sexual congress that did not allow for the possibility of pregancy was sin?

 

[Uphill Battle]

The logical pattern I see is this.

1) if it IS sin to prevent pregancy, they have 2 options.

2) option 1, abstinence. Obviously, this is wrong, we are commanded not to seperate ourselves from sexual relationship with our spouse for anything other than fasting and prayer, but after a time, come together again, to prevent temptation. So, if you avoid one sin, you commit another.

3) second option is to state that they should continue, and risk the consequences, despite the evidence that pain, suffering, and death will be the result, in which case, the legalistic application of the rule will make God out as some kind of Ogre, expecting pain and death as opposed to following a doctrine of the RCC.

Either or, you find yourself in a quandry.

 

[Theophorus]

I was under the impression that any sexual congress that did not allow for the possibility of pregancy was sin?

And what makes that a possibility.... and what does not.

 

[KJVisTruth]

let's just test God shall we?

I was speaking of His will; if we go against His will on something, its still gonna happen anyway cuz its His will.

 

[Theophorus]

The logical pattern I see is this.

1) if it IS sin to prevent pregancy, they have 2 options.

2) option 1, abstinence. Obviously, this is wrong, we are commanded not to seperate ourselves from sexual relationship with our spouse for anything other than fasting and prayer, but after a time, come together again, to prevent temptation. So, if you avoid one sin, you commit another.

3) second option is to state that they should continue, and risk the consequences, despite the evidence that pain, suffering, and death will be the result, in which case, the legalistic application of the rule will make God out as some kind of Ogre, expecting pain and death as opposed to following a doctrine of the RCC.

Either or, you find yourself in a quandry.

Or look for mercy.

 

[Benedicta00]

I was under the impression that any sexual congress that did not allow for the possibility of pregancy was sin?

Open to the possibilty...

But If you can't for grave reasons or for a valid reason have children, you are not compelled to still have them anyway.

The Church asks us to be responsible and use prudence.

If you have no job and you don't know how your rent's getting paid next month, then no, it would be prudent to have a child at that moment.

Listen up, because I really only want to have to say this once...

The sin of contraception/ABC/sterilization is two fold. means and intent. A good intent does not justify using immoral means.

Both the intent as well as the, means must be morally acceptable. Sterilization for the sole purpose of making one unable to bare children is immoral.

sterilization to treat a pathology is not immoral.

Now I will sit back and wait for the sharks to come in and rip apart what I just said.

Boy, this is going to be a fun thread.

 

[Benedicta00]

I was speaking of His will; if we go against His will on something, its still gonna happen anyway cuz its His will.

But not when he respects our free will choice to render our bodies incapable.

Can he do it? yes and some claim he has but that is not the every day normal occurrence.

You take B/C and sterilize yourself chances are great, real great, 99.9 to be exact you will not conceive.

One thing I never understood is why aren't Calvin's on board with Catholics when it comes to the B/C issue?

if anything bows down to man and not God- it ABC.

If we are going to give God our lives, shouldn't that included our fertility?

It's contradictory to believe that we are giving Him our fertility as we take chemicals and have surgeries that are intended and designed to remove our fertility.

 

[Uphill Battle]

And what makes that a possibility.... and what does not.

I'm sorry, what?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Yep. The ends never justify the means.

The sin of contraception/ABC/sterilization is two fold. means and intent. A good intent does not justify using immoral means.

Both the intent as well as the, means must be morally acceptable. Sterilization for the sole purpose of making one unable to bare children is immoral.

sterilization to treat a pathology is not immoral.

Didn't you just contradict yourself?