Would it be sin?!?

[The Princess Bride]

Yes, as it makes what God created to be fruitful purposefully sterile.

This is what the act of sodomy does . .it takes the fruitful act if sex and purposefully makes it sterile.

That is why sodomy is an abomination to God.

Deliberately sterile sex is the marital act of sodomy.


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How did sodomy come to be an interpretation of this?

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French sodomie,
from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom;
from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1-11
: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex;
also : copulation with an animal

It's quite a stretch to say sodomy covers the topic, I see no mention of sterilization or the like even remotely included.

 

[Benedicta00]

oh, do not be so shocked. What she means is its equal in the sense you are rendering yourself sterile. Sodomy has the same effect. Its a totally sterile act. No life can come of it.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

because any ABC method is viewed immoral.

What is a sin is intent and means.

You can have a good intent to avoid pregnancy but if you use an immoral means, you sin.

you use morally acceptable means like NFP but your reason for using it is selffish, then you still sin.

It's a two fold sin- this makes the 4th time I'm saying this.

NFP is not contraception. It's just the knowledge of how one's body works.

When using NFP, It's the mentality of the user that make it contraception. When that mentality is a contraceptive one, then you enter into sin.

No, NFP is DEFINITELY contraception - otherwise you would NOT use it.

My wife and I used NFP for the specific reason of preventing pregnancy, then getting pregnant. And I'll promise you that you are NOT in a position of judgment whereby you're able to tell me that we sinned. That's just silly.

 

[Benedicta00]

Run that by me again? Huhh?

She means it's unnatural to have surgical sterilized sex.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I find it kind of odd that certain forms of birth control appear to be acceptable to the RCC - such as Natural Family Planning. Yet others are unacceptable, and called immoral.

But at the core, what's the difference? All are designed to avoid pregnancy.

The difference is one actively interfers with the fertility of the marital act and the other doesn't.

One is open to life when the marital act is engaged in and the other is deliberately and purposefully closed to life when the marital act is engaged in.

To engage in purposefully sterile sex is the equivalant of marital sodomy.

It is a crime against nature and God.


.

 

[The Princess Bride]

NFP is not contraception. It's just the knowledge of how one's body works.

I see it as no different than BC.

You are either using it to AVOID pregnancy or ACHIEVE it.

 

[Benedicta00]

No, NFP is DEFINITELY contraception - otherwise you would NOT use it.

My wife and I used NFP for the specific reason of preventing pregnancy, then getting pregnant. And I'll promise you that you are NOT in a position of judgment whereby you're able to tell me that we sinned. That's just silly.

It isn't in of itself a contraceptive device since one can use it to get pregnant as well. What makes it a contraception is the intent of the user- to not be open to life at all.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

oh, do not be so shocked. What she means is its equal in the sense you are rendering yourself sterile. Sodomy has the same effect. Its a totally sterile act. No life can come of it.

Oh come now... Regardless of semantic hair-splitting, we all know that sodomy refers to homosexual sex.

By these same arguments, you could say older couples - where the woman is post-menopausal - are sinning, because she's no longer able to get pregnant as a result of their sexual intercourse.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

The difference is one actively interfers with the fertility of the marital act and the other doesn't.

One is open to life when the marital act is engaged in and the other is deliberately and purposefully closed to life when the marital act is engaged in.

To engage in purposefully sterile sex is the equivalant of marital sodomy.

It is a crime against nature and God.


.

NFP is contraception. It is birth control. If it were not, you would not utilize it.

 

[Yody]

The logical pattern I see is this.

1) if it IS sin to prevent pregancy, they have 2 options.

2) option 1, abstinence. Obviously, this is wrong, we are commanded not to seperate ourselves from sexual relationship with our spouse for anything other than fasting and prayer, but after a time, come together again, to prevent temptation. So, if you avoid one sin, you commit another.

3) second option is to state that they should continue, and risk the consequences, despite the evidence that pain, suffering, and death will be the result, in which case, the legalistic application of the rule will make God out as some kind of Ogre, expecting pain and death as opposed to following a doctrine of the RCC.

Either or, you find yourself in a quandry.

or u could just have sex during certyain times of the month u know

That way u battel temptations but ur not gettyin pregnant

 

[The Princess Bride]

or u could just have sex during certyain times of the month u know

That way u battel temptations but ur not gettyin pregnant

Well..for women who are blessed to have a day to day accurate knowledge of their cycle, NFP and your suggestion would be feasible, but for some of us who dont know one week from the next what to expect, that is just not possible.

 

[thereselittleflower]

No, NFP is DEFINITELY contraception - otherwise you would NOT use it.

No, it is not contraception it is abstinance . . .

It does not interfere with conception during the marital act.

To say that NFP or abstinence is contraception is no different than to say abortion is contraception. Both ideas extend the concept of contraception to unnatural extremes.

The prevention of conception by the use of birth control devices or agents
www.4sexual-pleasure.com/definitions.html

Things people do or ways people stop pregnancy from happening. Some things prevent ovulation (releasing of an egg), fertilization (meeting of egg and sperm), or the implantation of a pre-embryo in the uterus. Some ways are permanent and others let a woman get pregnant when she stops using them. Birth control pills, spermicide, diaphragms, sterilization and latex condoms are some examples. Withdrawing and douching do not work. ...www.iwannaknow.org/glossary/

methods to prevent pregnancy resulting after sex. NB only male and female condoms also protect against sexually transmitted infections (STIs).
www.equalcitizen.org.uk/glossary.htm

birth control by the use of devices (diaphragm or intrauterine device or condom) or drugs or surgery
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Birth control generally refers to any plan or method used to alter or avoid the body's natural state of fertility, thereby preventing or reducing the probability of pregnancy without abstaining from sexual intercourse; the term is also sometimes used to include abortion and natural family planning. The term family planning is normally considered a synonym for the term birth control. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception​

My wife and I used NFP for the specific reason of preventing pregnancy, then getting pregnant. And I'll promise you that you are NOT in a position of judgment whereby you're able to tell me that we sinned. That's just silly.

You didn't - . . it is a form of birth control . . not contraception.

It is contraceptive sex that is sterile. NFP allows new life if one is fertile when engaging in the marital act. Contraceptive sex does not.


.

 

[Benedicta00]

I see it as no different than BC.

You are either using it to AVOID pregnancy or ACHIEVE it.

B/C is just to avoid it but when NFP is used for that reason it differs as one can make their choice monthly where as B/C tends to be committed to a longer period of time.

We will use ABC because we are not open to life even if it may be for just for a few months.

NFP users tend to take it one day at a time and they do not change the chemistry of their body.

That s the core difference. We are not saying we will not accept children. Those who take chemicals and have surgery is saying just that with their actions.

"I'm taking this into my own hands, I'm not having children." rather then, "i cant have children but I'm still open."

 

[Benedicta00]

or u could just have sex during certyain times of the month u know

That way u battel temptations but ur not gettyin pregnant

you get it dude.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Oh come now... Regardless of semantic hair-splitting, we all know that sodomy refers to homosexual sex.

Why though? Because it take what God intended to be fertile and deliberately makes it sterile . .

That is a crime against nature and God.

That is why it is an abomination.

By these same arguments, you could say older couples - where the woman is post-menopausal - are sinning, because she's no longer able to get pregnant as a result of their sexual intercourse.

No, because one is open to life if it is possible . . . Look at Sarah and Abraham having Issac . . Look at Elizabeth and Zechariah having John the Baptist. . ..

One who engages in sodomy is not . . and that makes it a crime against nature and God, for there is absolutely no hope of fertility . .


.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

No, it is not contraception it is abstinance . . .

It does not interfere with conception during the marital act.

To say that NFP or abstinence is contraception is no different than to say abortion is contraception. Both ideas extend the concept of contraception to unnatural extremes.

The prevention of conception by the use of birth control devices or agents
www.4sexual-pleasure.com/definitions.html

Things people do or ways people stop pregnancy from happening. Some things prevent ovulation (releasing of an egg), fertilization (meeting of egg and sperm), or the implantation of a pre-embryo in the uterus. Some ways are permanent and others let a woman get pregnant when she stops using them. Birth control pills, spermicide, diaphragms, sterilization and latex condoms are some examples. Withdrawing and douching do not work. ...www.iwannaknow.org/glossary/

methods to prevent pregnancy resulting after sex. NB only male and female condoms also protect against sexually transmitted infections (STIs).
www.equalcitizen.org.uk/glossary.htm

birth control by the use of devices (diaphragm or intrauterine device or condom) or drugs or surgery
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Birth control generally refers to any plan or method used to alter or avoid the body's natural state of fertility, thereby preventing or reducing the probability of pregnancy without abstaining from sexual intercourse; the term is also sometimes used to include abortion and natural family planning. The term family planning is normally considered a synonym for the term birth control. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception​

You didn't - . . it is a form of birth control . . not contraception.

It is contraceptive sex that is sterile. NFP allows new life if one is fertile when engaging in the marital act. Contraceptive sex does not.


.

You're splitting hairs and making judgments that are not Biblical.

NFP is practiced to keep from becoming pregnant. Any other claims are totally irrelevant.

Basically, you're coming up with fancy, holy-sounding ways to say that your form of birth control is better than other forms of birth control.

 

[thereselittleflower]

B/C is just to avoid it but when NFP is used for that reason it differs as one can make their choice monthly where as B/C tends to be committed to a longer period of time.

We will use ABC because we are not open to life even if it may be for just for a few months.

I wonder if those who use the Pill, realize that it is an abortifant?

NFP users tend to take it one day at a time and they do not change the chemistry of their body.

That s the core difference. We are not saying we will not accept children. Those who take chemicals and have surgery is saying just that with their actions.

"I'm taking this into my own hands, I'm not having children." rather then, "i cant have children but I'm still open."

It is an openness to life and to God's command to be fertile and multiple and fill the earth . . the earth is not yet filled, nowhere close to being filled . .. overcrowded in some areas, yes .. but not filled . . .


.

 

[Uphill Battle]

oh, do not be so shocked. What she means is its equal in the sense you are rendering yourself sterile. Sodomy has the same effect. Its a totally sterile act. No life can come of it.

mmmhmmm.... except that we have no command against preventing pregnancy.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Why though? Because it take what God intended to be fertile and deliberately makes it sterile . .

That is a crime against nature and God.

That is why it is an abomination.




No, because one is open to life if it is possible . . . Look at Sarah and Abraham having Issac . . Look at Elizabeth and Zechariah having John the Baptist. . ..

One who engages in sodomy is not . . and that makes it a crime against nature and God, for there is absolutely no hope of fertility . .


.

First of all, sodomy refers to homosexual sex, and ANY comparison of it to (as you call it) "sterilized sex" is absolutely absurd.


And you're spinning in circles here. A woman who is post-menopausal is almost 100% certain to not be able to get pregnant. Therefore, by your professed line of reasoning, she and her husband are SINNING by having sex. And, again, that's just plain silly.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You're splitting hairs and making judgments that are not Biblical.

No I'm not.

NFP is practiced to keep from becoming pregnant. Any other claims are totally irrelevant.

NFP avoids the marital act altogether.

Contraception makes the marital act deliberately sterile.

There is no crime in avoiding the marital act if both parties agree . . even in ancient Israel men would abstaine from their wives for years at a time to devote themselves to service of Torah.

It is not a crime to abstain from sex if both parties agree . .

It is a crime against God and nature to deliberately make the marital ACT sterile.

Basically, you're coming up with fancy, holy-sounding ways to say that your form of birth control is better than other forms of birth control.

LOL . . No . . I am stating simply fundamental facts.

That's all.


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