Would God give us an indication when Satan is chained?

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

Mylene - what are you going to say to Christ when asks why you told people that Satan is chained, so they didn't have to arm themselves against spiritual forces, don't have to worry about resisting the devil, don't have to worry about being tempted by the devil - what do you think Christ thinks of that?

I bet you are making Him sad...but that's MHO.

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

Arc said:
Really?

Lets look at history:
Eph 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

So would being saved by Grace though faith in Christ be better than being decieved by satan leading to death?

Notice it says "without God in the world". So before Christ God was not even in the world!

no.....please read the passage closer. It is the HOPE of God was not in the world.

Just as now Satan in not in the world (because he's bound) in the same way God was not in the world before Christ. So that now since Christ's atonement God is "in the world" and satan is bound.

You are ignoring the context of Revelation 20. He is chained, put in the abyss, which is shut over and sealed and he cannot deceive.

As he was not in the abyss in Peter and Paul's day - as shown in the scripture I have already provided, WHEN did this occur?
Satan's power over death was removed....but we are still to arm ourselves against spiritual forces - why? Because he is still not in that abyss yet.

The last point is look at history <2,000 years. Many are now saved by Grace were before Christ gentiles had no hope. I would call that a great triumph!

Yes, and look at all the other things that have gone on. Satan has been working hard.
Let's see - Hitler, the Holocaust, Cambodia and the killing fields, the murder and tortures in vietnam, North Korea - life is just great there , genocide in Kosovo, tribal warfare in Burundi, Osama, Saddam, Khadifi, and Idi Amin...and I could mention much more - and in regards to one century.

No - my concern was not about suffering for Christ. I am concerned at what I perceive as a deceiving thought - "Satan is bound so I am safe from temptation and deception. I don't have to do what Paul wrote - I don't have to arm myself against wicked spiritual forces."
That is so SAD!

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

duster1az said:
Arc writes:

Your above quote is in error. The abyss is an actual place and shouldn't be spiritualized away as though it had no meaning in Scripture. It is the place of imprisionment referenced in (Luke 8:31), where the Lord confronted a man possessed with many demons. When confonted they pleaded with Christ not to send them there. They feared a literal confinement in a literal place. The abyss is also spoken of in (Rev. 9:1-2, 11), where evil spirits are seen leaving for a short period of time at the end of the Tribulation.

While it may or may not be true that angels can be tied down with chains purchased at Ace, they can be confined and made immobile and helpless (Dan. 10; Rev. 12). This is the idea behind (Rev. 20:1-3), Satan losing all freedom and power to act on this planet throughout the millennial period. It's poor exegesis to relate the abyss to a figurative curbing of Satan's power here on earth.

In Christ,
Tracey

Well said!

Linda8 · Mar 21, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Mylene - what are you going to say to Christ when asks why you told people that Satan is chained, so they didn't have to arm themselves against spiritual forces, don't have to worry about resisting the devil, don't have to worry about being tempted by the devil - what do you think Christ thinks of that?

I bet you are making Him sad...but that's MHO.

Do you need Satan to exist before you live a holy life.? Obviously not.

Come now..take a good look at this.. Your concept REQUIRES SATAN TO EXIST in order for you to cleanse your sins.

That leads to a desire for Satan.. which is hardly agreeable.

The evils of the human race are clear and that is what you will guard yourself against. Once that is done, Satan is of no consequence since Satan is primarily represented by the numerous deviant humans on earth.

Live a holy life, and do not require Satan to exist before you arm yourself.

You should not want Satan to exist in order for that to give you cause

to arm yourself. That is not scriptural at all.

Linda8 · Mar 21, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Yes, and look at all the other things that have gone on. Satan has been working hard.
Let's see - Hitler, the Holocaust, Cambodia and the killing fields, the murder and tortures in vietnam, North Korea - life is just great there , genocide in Kosovo, tribal warfare in Burundi, Osama, Saddam, Khadifi, and Idi Amin...and I could mention much more - and in regards to one century.

Satan made me do it... lamest excuse.

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

Linda8 said:
Do you need Satan to exist before you live a holy life.? Obviously not.

Come now..take a good look at this.. Your concept REQUIRES SATAN TO EXIST in order for you to cleanse your sins.

Huh? we are born with original sin. Original sin that came to mankind in the garden.

And I am not the one who cleansed my sins - Jesus did that. Rather the Holy Spirit when on belief I received the Spirit.

And yes - Satan does exist!

Now the question really come to my mind - if you have spiritualized the 1000 years, the chaining of Satan, the existence of Satan - have you spiritualized Jesus as well?

Honestly, I really have to wonder what Messianic group you are associated with if you don't think we will know when we are resurrected, if you don't even beleive that Satan exists, and if you think we cleanse ourselves.

That leads to a desire for Satan.. which is hardly agreeable.

Bull! Recognizing what scripture says about Satan does not lead to a desire for Satan.

The evils of the human race are clear and that is what you will guard yourself against. Once that is done, Satan is of no consequence since Satan is primarily represented by the numerous deviant humans on earth.

Read Ephesians 6 again. Our fight is not with flesh and blood but with spiritual forces of wickedness. Your statement above flatly contradicts the word of God. But then you haven't addressed anyof my points with scripture at all.

Live a holy life, and do not require Satan to exist before you arm yourself.
You should not want Satan to exist in order for that to give you cause
to arm yourself. That is not scriptural at all.

Your comments are evidence of false witness in that you are assigning beliefs onto me that I don't have.

I strongly suggest you get yourself into the word of God, Linda.

Linda8 · Mar 21, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Huh? we are born with original sin. Original sin that came to mankind in the garden.

And I am not the one who cleansed my sins - Jesus did that. Rather the Holy Spirit when on belief I received the Spirit.

And yes - Satan does exist!

Now the question really come to my mind - if you have spiritualized the 1000 years, the chaining of Satan, the existence of Satan - have you spiritualized Jesus as well?

Honestly, I really have to wonder what Messianic group you are associated with if you don't think we will know when we are resurrected, if you don't even beleive that Satan exists, and if you think we cleanse ourselves.

Please Please read my post more carefully.

You must not overlook the IMPORTANT issue regarding time-- T-I-M-E

Satan ACTUALLY INTERACTED DIRECTLY WITH the Messiah during his 1st advent so your deliberate attempt to create the impression that

someone has implied Satan does not exist is unfounded.

Now understand that try as hard as you can, you cannot stick yourself

in the year 33AD or 70AD regarding Satan.

Satan did his thing then and then T-IME passed.

You are not living in the first century with Satan anymore.

You must not portray a static picture of living in the first century

when you know full well we are now centuries ahead and the chaining

had not taken place in the days of Paul.

quote--
And yes - Satan does exist!
-----
The human being is now Satan as the Devil is not roaming.

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

I considered time, Linda.

And you have yet to show me any scripture to contradict my point of view.

And yet you do contradict scripture.

Now what happened since Paul wrote the following:

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}

Yes, Satan interacted with Jesus - glad you realize that!
Satan also hindered Paul and Paul wrote the passage above.
James tells us to resist the devil.
Peter tells us that Satan is roaming, seeking to devour.

Are you a preterist, Linda?

FreeinChrist · Mar 21, 2004

nevermind.

parousia70 · Mar 22, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Now parousia - you know my view.

When Satan is chained, it will be the Millennial reign of Christ. Only believers enter that millennium.

Yes I know that is your view, what I don't know is where the Bible teaches it to you, specifically about the part where ONLY BELIEVERS are alive during the millennium.

This is interesting to me because it automatically implies that you believe Human beings are incapable of sinning apart from satanic influence.

Is this really what you believe?

mylene · Mar 22, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Now what happened since Paul wrote the following:

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}

Yes, Satan interacted with Jesus - glad you realize that!
Satan also hindered Paul and Paul wrote the passage above.
James tells us to resist the devil.
Peter tells us that Satan is roaming, seeking to devour.

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In what UNIQUE ways taught by Christ does one PUT UP ANY anti-Satanic -anti demonic RESISTANCE TO SATAN and spirits SPECIFICALLY?

What different prayers in Christ's name do you use to resist Satan and IS IT ANY DIFFERENT from prayers and heavenly requests used in resisting any other evil??
Does God and Christ provide any SPECIAL methods that are SPECIFICALLY
DESIGNED TO enable humans resist Satan and are these TOTALLY different
from methods of resisting human evils such as drugs, murder,corruption , greed etc??

Please give the scriptural explanation for how God and Christ specifies the
DIFFERENT means by which humans resist Satan as compared to resisting
the many evils of human corruption.

FreeinChrist · Mar 22, 2004

mylene said:
In what UNIQUE ways taught by Christ does one PUT UP ANY anti-Satanic -anti demonic RESISTANCE TO SATAN and spirits SPECIFICALLY?

How about if you answer the questions that I have already asked?

Do the verses in Ephesisans 6 that I quoted apply to the church today - and if not - when did they cease to apply?

If Satan was roaming in Paul and Peter's day...if James wrote to resist the devil...at what point did Satan stop roaming? That would be a mighty big event.

I reject the human reasoning being offered here to disagree with me - use scripture.

piedpiper · Mar 22, 2004

mylene said:
In what UNIQUE ways taught by Christ does one PUT UP ANY anti-Satanic -anti demonic RESISTANCE TO SATAN and spirits SPECIFICALLY?

The Gospels are riddled with accounts of Christ casting out demons. My favorite account is from Mark 9:14-32; Mat 17:14-23; Luke 9:37-45

this is when the Disciples run into a boy who is "Possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech" (Mark 9:17). The Disciples lay their hands on the boy and the demon will not come out. Jesus then commanded the demon to leave the boy. He then said that "This kind can come out only by prayer"(Mark 9:29).

mylene · Mar 22, 2004

piedpiper said:
The Gospels are riddled with accounts of Christ casting out demons. My favorite account is from Mark 9:14-32; Mat 17:14-23; Luke 9:37-45

this is when the Disciples run into a boy who is "Possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech" (Mark 9:17). The Disciples lay their hands on the boy and the demon will not come out. Jesus then commanded the demon to leave the boy. He then said that "This kind can come out only by prayer"(Mark 9:29).

Of course IF YOU COME ACROSS someone who is possesed by demons

then the situation would arise that you would need to try to cast out tyhe demons but I am not talking about people already possesed.

I am talking about those who ARE NOT possessed by demons and not

possessed by Satan but give the impression they ARE FIGHTING DEMONS

That does NOT APPLY to people who are not possesed by demons.

You are not possesed by demons... yes?

So how does CHRIST TEACH people NOT possesed by demons

to guard themselves against demons and Satanic spirits?

Are there any special methods , special prayers, special worship to God and Christ for anti-satanic protection separate from prayers guarding against
human evils?

FreeinChrist · Mar 22, 2004

Why don't you answer my questions, mylene?

Atkin · Mar 22, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
Why don't you answer my questions, mylene?

God is the one who sets the binding into motion hence He is the

only one who knew when Satan was bound.

Atkin · Mar 22, 2004

mylene said:
Of course IF YOU COME ACROSS someone who is possesed by demons

then the situation would arise that you would need to try to cast out tyhe demons but I am not talking about people already possesed.

I am talking about those who ARE NOT possessed by demons and not

possessed by Satan but give the impression they ARE FIGHTING DEMONS

That does NOT APPLY to people who are not possesed by demons.

You are not possesed by demons... yes?

So how does CHRIST TEACH people NOT possesed by demons

to guard themselves against demons and Satanic spirits?

Are there any special methods , special prayers, special worship to God and Christ for anti-satanic protection separate from prayers guarding against
human evils?

How many people get attacked by demons everyday in 2004.

How many people commit murder, adultery, use cocaine etc compared

to attacks by these demons and principalitiies?

Compare the 2 and you will see what requires more ARMOR AND GUARD.

Sodomy and greed emanate from the heart, not from demons.

Would God give us an indication when Satan is chained?

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