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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

RDKirk

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To word my point slightly differently:

The doctrinal points that many derive from Paul's epistles that seem to be different from what is seen in other parts of the New Testament are not different at all; rather, they are interpreted very poorly due to not understanding the context in which Paul was writing. There is no debate about "We can earn salvation vs we cannot earn salvation", or any discussion of anything like the Calvinist understanding of "predestination" or "total depravity" or anything like that in Paul's epistles. All of those points which are Reformational distinctives come from not understanding Paul's refutation of the Judaizers.

There isn't just the issue of the Judaizers.

There is also the issue that Paul was not preaching in a philosophical/religious vacuum. His audience were extremely religious (or superstitious, if you prefer) and had a firm mental concept of their relationship with their gods. Paul had to pull them out of that concept, he had to make a firm distinction between their gods--who were fickle, whimsical, unreliable, and amoral--and the God of Abraham, who operated from an unchanging plan of morality and salvation that had included them from the beginning.
 
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hedrick

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Paul had to pull them out of that concept, he had to make a firm distinction between their gods--who were fickle, whimsical, unreliable, and amoral--and the God of Abraham, who operated from an unchanging plan of morality and salvation that had included them from the beginning.
Right. Paul's churches had people from several different sources:
* Jews
* Proselytes (people who admired the Jewish God and were on the border of Judaism, but never were circumcised)
* Pagans

He had to distinguish Christianity from all of these. Opposing the Judaizers was important for the first two, but I agree with your summary of his message to large parts of paganism.

But he also had to present a vision that would be attractive. In addition to the immorality of the pagans (which was definitely a topic for him), he had to present a spiritual alternative to the most attractive parts of paganism, e.g. Mithraism. Jesus as savior God with whom we can have communion was key to that. For some reason people seem to skip over signs that Paul was what today we'd call a charismatic.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Fundamentally if you change just about anything in history, you change a lot. I'm a tremendous nerd, and one of my interests is a form of speculative fiction known as alternate history; the very basis of this sort of fiction is the question of "What if?". In the world of alternate history there tends to be talk of "butterflies", it refers to the butterfly effect, often associated with science fiction involving time travel. The basic idea is that even a minute thing can cause massive consequences and cascading cause and effect.

For example, let's imagine that Archduke Ferdinand survived the assassination attempt, that's a pretty big thing that could cause pretty big changes. But let's use time travel as a thought exercise: What if I built a time machine and when I travel back in time, I step out of my machine and step on a bug. That may seem inconsequential, but what if someone else was going to step on that bug, and it caused them to have to clean their shoe later, which made them five minutes later; but now that doesn't happen, and they arrive five minutes earlier, and we have a chain reaction of cascading causes and effects rippling out. And oh, by the way, because you stepped on that bug Stanislav Petrov wasn't there to stop World War III from happening back in 1983.

So from that perspective, of course things would be different without Paul. But that's true not just of Paul, but of everyone else in the early Church. That doesn't mean that without Paul there is no Christianity at all as we know it, because if we are of the position that what Paul said and taught was the same as what the rest of the apostles taught, then that teaching is still there.

But let's consider some of those butterflies:

There is often a general agreement that one of the main motivations for the defining of the Biblical Canon is as a response to Marcion of Sinope and the Marcionites. See, Marcion is considered the first person in the history of Christianity to attempt to create a defined Christian Canon; to deal with Marcion it was necessary for the Church, in response, to talk quite seriously about a defined Canon. The thing about Marcion is that for Marcion the only true apostle was Paul, and Marcion's Canon consisted only of a heavily edited version of the Gospel of Luke, and edited versions of Paul's letters.

When we remove Paul, we remove Marcionism and Marcion's Canon, and so then what happens? Is there something else which spurns the Church to act to deal with a defined Canon of Scripture? It's pretty likely that something probably would happen, but definitely in not the same way. And obviously without Paul the Canon is going to look very different. For one, without Paul we don't just not have the Pauline letters, we also don't have Luke-Acts. Would there, then, be three Gospels instead of four? But it doesn't stop there, because we can also talk about 2 Peter and Jude; both of which are likely to have been written sometime in the 2nd century. Now, if Jude influenced 2 Peter, it is possible we'd still have Jude, but if 2 Peter influenced Jude, then the existence of both is hard to say. At the very least, the content of 2nd Peter would be different.

Speaking of Peter, how would things have gone had Paul not been there to rebuke Peter when he shied away from eating with the Gentiles when the group from Jerusalem visited?

None of this is to say that the core confession of the Christian religion would be different, because we accept on faith that the apostles were in concert with their confession, and so the apostolic confession would still be delivered even without Paul. But even if the apostolic confession remained, that doesn't mean things aren't going to be seriously different.

Take Paul away, and watch as the butterflies pile up.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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RDKirk

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But he also had to present a vision that would be attractive. In addition to the immorality of the pagans (which was definitely a topic for him), he had to present a spiritual alternative to the most attractive parts of paganism, e.g. Mithraism. Jesus as savior God with whom we can have communion was key to that. For some reason people seem to skip over signs that Paul was what today we'd call a charismatic.

The Graeco-Roman pagans defined their own individual ethics and lived by the morality of the community (which are two different things).

Their gods did not dictate morality. If a Roman wanted to sleep with his friend's wife, and his own personal ethics permitted it somehow, he made sacrifices to the appropriate gods (probably Venus and Mercury) to make it happen without him getting caught. There was no god to tell him that it was morally wrong.

The notion of a person's ethic being the acceptance of God as his moral dictator was something new.
 
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Soyeong

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true. About 1/3 of the verses in the NT contain quotes or allusions to the OT and Paul did this thousands of times in order to show that it supported what he was saying and to show that he hadn't departed from it either to the right or to the left, so he certainly saw the OT as still being authoritative. Everything taught in the NT is based on what was taught in the OT, so in this regard the NT serves as commentary on the OT. So while Paul's commentary is certainly beneficial in helping to correctly understand the OT, it ultimately is supplementary, so there is no question that Christianity could survive without his teachings. In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, so sometimes I wonder if there would be less confusion within Christianity without him.
 
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RDKirk

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So while Paul's commentary is certainly beneficial in helping to correctly understand the OT, it ultimately is supplementary, so there is no question that Christianity could survive without his teachings. In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, so sometimes I wonder if there would be less confusion within Christianity without him.

One would have to be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox to go that route. Tradition would have to rule Christian practice.
 
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hedrick

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One would have to be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox to go that route. Tradition would have to rule Christian practice.
It's always hard to assess hypothetical situations, but I agree that it's plausible Christianity could have survived without Paul. But the question for this thread is whether it would have been different. Even that is hard to assess, because we can't tell how much Paul is innovating and how much he is reflecting a larger community.

In my judgement, the Gentile mission would have happened without Paul, but I think justification by faith was his idea. I'm not sure how much lack of it would have impacted the early Church, but it certainly would have made a big difference to the Reformation. It's more plausible that that Reformation as we know it wouldn't have happened without Paul than that Christianity wouldn't have.
 
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