Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Lost4words

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?
 

HTacianas

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?

Paul never taught anything any of the other apostles didn't teach. The churches that never heard of Paul held to the same faith as those who did.
 
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Abaxvahl

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?

Rightly so, as HTacianas said, St. Paul taught as the other Apostles did, which is just another way of saying what Jesus told them or the Holy Spirit inspired them to teach (God-given).
 
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Doug Melven

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?
Where do you think Paul got his words from?
Unless you think Paul was lying, he didn't come up with what he wrote on his own.
In Ephesians 3:3-6 he wrote that by revelation from God he learned of the mystery that we Gentiles would be part of God's plan.
Galatians 1:12 says that he didn't come up with the Gospel he taught on his own, but he received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 12 says that he received many revelations from Jesus Christ.

The church today would be very different, and not for the better, without Paul.
God may have used someone else to do what Paul did, and people would complain about that person as well.
 
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hedrick

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My first reaction is yes. But it seems to me that much of what Paul expressed was felt by others as well. Paul expressed the significance that Christians saw in Jesus in light of the crucifixion and resurrection. Key elements were that Christ's death was salvific, that we experience God through him. Christ wasn't just a teacher, but an objection of religious devotion. I don't think these things were peculiar to Paul.

Paul's uniqueness was in the specific way he described things, and also the way he dealt with the Gentile issue. I believe Gentiles would have been accepted anyway, but the specific way he used justification and faith might not have been. In some ways the Protestant church may be more dependent upon the specific Pauline approach than other parts of the Church.
 
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zippy2006

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

It would be significantly different, yes. Especially the Protestant tradition which leans so heavily on Paul's writings. In fact I don't even think it's controversial to say that the Reformation would have never happened without Paul.

Paul never taught anything any of the other apostles didn't teach. The churches that never heard of Paul held to the same faith as those who did.

Which Churches never heard of Paul? Why would you say that Paul never taught anything any of the other apostles didn't teach? I just see no evidence for such a claim. We have only a fraction of the writings from other apostles that we have from Paul, and the topics, context, and substance covered are vastly different. There are all sorts of things in Paul's writings that aren't in the writings of the other apostles.
 
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Basil the Great

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My answer is most certainly a YES. Without Paul, it is quite possible that Christianity would be more Jewish oriented, though still not a part of mainstream Judaism. Also, there would be more emphasis upon good deeds and somewhat less upon faith.
 
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HTacianas

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It would be significantly different, yes. Especially the Protestant tradition which leans so heavily on Paul's writings. In fact I don't even think it's controversial to say that the Reformation would have never happened without Paul.



Which Churches never heard of Paul? Why would you say that Paul never taught anything any of the other apostles didn't teach? I just see no evidence for such a claim. We have only a fraction of the writings from other apostles that we have from Paul, and the topics, context, and substance covered are vastly different. There are all sorts of things in Paul's writings that aren't in the writings of the other apostles.

There are churches such as the Thomas church of India that were established as Christian churches without ever reading any of Paul's letters. Paul's letters circulated in Asia Minor, parts of Europe, and the Middle East but didn't make it to the frontiers of christianity until much later.

Reading in Galatians 2, we see that Paul met with church leaders to have them verify that what he had been teaching was consistent with what they were teaching so that he would know that his preaching was not "in vain".

There are some who believe that it was the Didache that Paul was teaching from. There were no gospels in Paul's time.

And as knowledgeable former Protestant, I leave my former brethren to the jurisdiction of the Roman Church.
 
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~Anastasia~

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If Paul's teaching was so radically different from that of the other Apostles - the early Church would have split into two.

Remember that the epistles are largely corrective letters, or those responding to inquiry or for particular congregations.

That doesn't mean the principles don't hold true for other churches - else we would have no use for them today.

But the basic faith that was taught as Churches were established was the same. No Church was started by an epistle or stack of epistles. They were established in person with long periods of teaching.

Our Bibles might have a different tone without Paul. But Christianity is built on the revelation of Christ and the Holy Spirit. With or without Paul, it would still be Christianity.
 
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bcbsr

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?
His teachings are quite literally Jesus' teachings. I'm not simply say that they are consistent with what Jesus said. I'm say that Jesus spoke through him the Word of God.

1Th 2:13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.

Seems to me the hypothetical scenario you're referring just invites endless and pointless speculation. I could just as well speculate that Jesus would have chosen someone else - maybe Barnabus - to say the same things Paul said.

I think another thing to be concerned about regarding this thread is whether it violates the CF rules, namely "Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums" The Christian History Forums is one of the Christian Only Forums.

Though I think a lot of people are simply not aware of the rules.
 
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~Anastasia~

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We should be ok as far as the rules. The way the OP worded the question does not break them.

He's not challenging whether Paul's writing should be included or his position as an Apostle.

The only challenge I see is questioning whether or not Christ's own words should be of primary importance, and that is an accepted hierarchy among many Christians.
 
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drjean

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Christianity would be completely different, as it was before Paul. People would still be believing as in the days Jesus' was alive instead. Jesus is the one who taught Paul, 'his gospel' of Jesus the Messiah. Things were different after Jesus ascended, and God used Paul to teach those differences, in a mighty way, through letters to the new Christian churches.... not another gospel but Paul's gospel of Jesus.

Paul didn't take over the New Testament, God used Paul to write and instruct for our edification. The Bible is GOD'S WORD, all of it... God has kept His Word pure... surely Paul was one of the Holy Men used.

The thread begins ok...
 
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zippy2006

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There are churches such as the Thomas church of India that were established as Christian churches without ever reading any of Paul's letters. Paul's letters circulated in Asia Minor, parts of Europe, and the Middle East but didn't make it to the frontiers of christianity until much later.

Interesting. Do you know approximately when they received Paul's letters?

Reading in Galatians 2, we see that Paul met with church leaders to have them verify that what he had been teaching was consistent with what they were teaching so that he would know that his preaching was not "in vain".

Right, and ironically I think that is a great argument in favor of the position that Paul's teaching differed in some ways. The same goes for 2 Peter 3:16.

There are some who believe that it was the Didache that Paul was teaching from. There were no gospels in Paul's time.

That's interesting, but I've never heard of such an early date for the Didache. My guess is that there was a strong oral tradition at that time, and Paul clearly had access to Jesus' original apostles and disciples.
 
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dreadnought

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?
Paul has a lot to teach. However, Jesus was God in flesh (Matt 1:23), so I look at his teachings differently than Paul's.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?

Paul’s words are from God. He was chosen by Jesus to deliver a message. Jesus wouldn’t choose someone who wouldn’t deliver the message correctly.
 
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RDKirk

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My answer is most certainly a YES. Without Paul, it is quite possible that Christianity would be more Jewish oriented, though still not a part of mainstream Judaism. Also, there would be more emphasis upon good deeds and somewhat less upon faith.

It also might not have survived beyond 70 AD. Paul served, at the very least, to disperse the Christians out of Jerusalem, so however his journey to Damascus might have turned out, the Holy Spirit had used him to guarantee that Christianity would survive beyond 70 AD.

If there had not been Paul, there would probably have been someone raised up by the Holy Spirit from Antioch--likely it was someone from Antioch who originally taught Priscilla and Aquilla.
 
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RDKirk

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We should be ok as far as the rules. The way the OP worded the question does not break them.

He's not challenging whether Paul's writing should be included or his position as an Apostle.

The only challenge I see is questioning whether or not Christ's own words should be of primary importance, and that is an accepted hierarchy among many Christians.

Those would be Christians who do not really understand the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing to us the scriptures we now possess.

Jesus wrote nothing. We don't know for sure that His actual disciples wrote anything themselves. We do know for sure, of course, that none of them was personally responsible for their words living beyond their own lifetimes. All of what we have is the result of the Holy Spirit inspiring men to write, and then inspiring following Christians to cherish and preserve their words.

It's not Jesus' words versus Paul's words, it's the Holy Spirit who provided us with all the words.
 
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redleghunter

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Would Christianity be different without St Paul?

Could Christianity survive without his teachings?

I am starting to wonder if we should hold onto the words of Jesus in the NT more than those of Paul. It seems to me that Paul has taken over the NT. Rightly or wrongly so?
It’s all Holy Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures.

God’s will was to convert Saul of Tarsus a persecutor and murderer of Christians. Taking the most hardened heart and transforming it into a heart of flesh.

Asking this “what if” question is akin to asking what if Captain America was actually German.
 
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RDKirk

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Asking this “what if” question is akin to asking what if Captain America was actually German.

Marvel did that. It sucked.

They did that to Thor too (him being a Germanic god and all). That also sucked.
 
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