Worst Tel-evangelists?

[hhodgson]

I agree with ODD, but I wanted to say that when Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye went through that mess years ago, a minister told me that as long as I was obedient to what God told me to do as far as contributing to that ministry, then it wasn't any of my concern at that point. And that's true. That was between them and God; and God (and the law) dealt with them.

I agree... Yeah, Jim and Tammy messed up bad by not choosing the right course toward the end of the PTL ministry. My family went there several times in the early 80s before and during that mess. We loved it so much that we became partners. We gave plenty over the years in the ministry (not Jim and Tammy). We do not regret it all. God still BLESSED us and we really miss what God has done there.

It's a shame what happened there by the result of their actions of disobedience in several ways including greed. I could write a book about our (all good) experiences while we visited there. The best experience for me personally was everyday at 10:30 am... on the entire facility grounds wherever your at (waterpark, rec room, restaurant etc.) and whatever your doing... to stop and take a moment in in prayer. To see hundreds and hundreds of Christians of all faiths actually do that. Many would even get on their knees with hands raised while praying and worshiping. It was awesome.

That minister was right about being obedient to what God told you to do in your giving. The devil may tell you that God won't/didn't bless you. But my Bible tells me in (Deut 28:1-14) "I will BLESS you going in and BLESS you going out... among many other things mentioned. THE BLESSING is all about obedience.

As for today... many are saying that Jim is doing it again... what He did at Heritage USA! Their saying his new ministry is going to fall also just like PTL. So what... if he (Jim) has decided to push (short and long term) food for storage for those Christians who believe in end-time preparation. Who knows... maybe this time he has heard and continuing to hear God and is getting it right this time.

Bakker's present ministry is aired "once" a week on Daystar which I watch. While at Branson a few years back... we were on his program. It was alright. Last time there we enjoyed going to Keith Moore's church. And... maybe next time we'll visit Billye Brim who is in Branson also.

Uh-oh... gotta stop or else I may write that book...

THE BLESSING,

Harry...

​

 

[reynolds357]

I agree... Yeah, Jim and Tammy messed up bad by not choosing the right course toward the end of the PTL ministry. My family went there several times in the early 80s before and during that mess. We loved it so much that we became partners. We gave plenty over the years in the ministry (not Jim and Tammy). We do not regret it all. God still BLESSED us and we really miss what God has done there.



​

At one time I was fully convinced that Jim was nothing but a crook. Now, I kind of believe he was a victim of circumstances that grew to be bigger than he knew how to handle. I really think he had the best intentions, but the ministry grew at a rate that he was simply not capable of managing. Even then, he was able to keep it all together until Falwell persuaded him to step aside as Chariman of the board. The ministry actually fell apart on Falwell's watch, not Baker's. I really think Jim intended to defraud no one. I really think had he been left in charge, he would have made good on his promises.
Just my thoughts.​

 

[hhodgson]

At one time I was fully convinced that Jim was nothing but a crook. Now, I kind of believe he was a victim of circumstances that grew to be bigger than he knew how to handle. I really think he had the best intentions, but the ministry grew at a rate that he was simply not capable of managing. Even then, he was able to keep it all together until Falwell persuaded him to step aside as Chairman of the board. The ministry actually fell apart on Falwell's watch, not Baker's. I really think Jim intended to defraud no one. I really think had he been left in charge, he would have made good on his promises.
Just my thoughts.

Wow... This is awesome. Your thinking changed from Jim Bakker being a "crook" to Jim Bakker being a "victim." It takes walking in the spirit (LOVE) that was revealed to you to say that. This is a form of... the kind of Spirit walk that will... unite the faith of the Body of Christ that I believe is God's plan... forming His end-time army. This is a perfect example for the Church... "to take another look."

Yes, I believe THE BLESSING was all over PTL UNTIL the end. His ministry grew so fast and Jim Bakker was in "total and complete control " of everything there.

Hmmm... Where have we heard that lately? Jim Bakker SHOULD have done is what God has done for us, (delegated control to run the earth). He should have delegated control to some of his of board members at PTL to help run it. And by doing that... would have relieve tremendous responsibility on him. As president and founder of PTL... If he would have done that by becoming the (overall overseer)... he would STILL have been in complete control without losing any control. And the ministry facility may have still be there today.

For anyone that visited PTL and even supported the ministry. You don't have to regret it. Yes... Jim Bakker failed the ministry that God gave him. He knows it. We found his book, "I Was Wrong" in a garage sale (great book). So...by the law of the land... he paid the price. I believe he has truly repented... so in God's view... that memory is gone. So, hang on to those memories you and your family have enjoyed. That was just a "piece" of heaven. (IMHO)

Remember! Jim and Tammy submitted themselves to Jerry Falwell in hopes Falwell would be compassionate and help save the ministry... in which I believe he did. However, eventually Falwell gave in from a lot of flack from his denominational brethren and chose not to save it and the lawyers took over. I believe Falwell tried.

Before the ministry failed though... Morris Cerullo took over the helm and almost kept it going. He was asking for donations to continue but by this time the donors stopped giving. Millions were still in a state of shock. God could have saved it but (maybe) in His wisdom, He left it go as a reminder to others. No ministry... no matter how large or small will prosper without God being "first place."

Today... I wish Bakker well and pray he has God's BLESSING on his life and his new ministry. Our God is the God of second chances, third, fourth, etc... until we get it right by the choices WE make. (Psalm 36:1) His mercy endureth forever...

Thank you Sir...

Walk in THE BLESSING,

Harry...
​

 

[reynolds357]

Wow... This is awesome. Your thinking changed from Jim Bakker being a "crook" to Jim Bakker being a "victim." It takes walking in the spirit (LOVE) that was revealed to you to say that. This is a form of... the kind of Spirit walk that will... unite the faith of the Body of Christ that I believe is God's plan... forming His end-time army. This is a perfect example for the Church... "to take another look."

Yes, I believe THE BLESSING was all over PTL UNTIL the end. His ministry grew so fast and Jim Bakker was in "total and complete control " of everything there.

Hmmm... Where have we heard that lately? Jim Bakker SHOULD have done is what God has done for us, (delegated control to run the earth). He should have delegated control to some of his of board members at PTL to help run it. And by doing that... would have relieve tremendous responsibility on him. As president and founder of PTL... If he would have done that by becoming the (overall overseer)... he would STILL have been in complete control without losing any control. And the ministry facility may have still be there today.

For anyone that visited PTL and even supported the ministry. You don't have to regret it. Yes... Jim Bakker failed the ministry that God gave him. He knows it. We found his book, "I Was Wrong" in a garage sale (great book). So...by the law of the land... he paid the price. I believe he has truly repented... so in God's view... that memory is gone. So, hang on to those memories you and your family have enjoyed. That was just a "piece" of heaven. (IMHO)

Remember! Jim and Tammy submitted themselves to Jerry Falwell in hopes Falwell would be compassionate and help save the ministry... in which I believe he did. However, eventually Falwell gave in from a lot of flack from his denominational brethren and chose not to save it and the lawyers took over. I believe Falwell tried.

Before the ministry failed though... Morris Cerullo took over the helm and almost kept it going. He was asking for donations to continue but by this time the donors stopped giving. Millions were still in a state of shock. God could have saved it but (maybe) in His wisdom, He left it go as a reminder to others. No ministry... no matter how large or small will prosper without God being "first place."

Today... I wish Bakker well and pray he has God's BLESSING on his life and his new ministry. Our God is the God of second chances, third, fourth, etc... until we get it right by the choices WE make. (Psalm 36:1) His mercy endureth forever...

Thank you Sir...

Walk in THE BLESSING,

Harry...
​

I am trying to remember the exact timeline of events, its been quite some time. Did the theme park not close when Falwell was still in control? I remember Jim saying something like "Falwell closed the park."

 

[hhodgson]

I am trying to remember the exact timeline of events, its been quite some time. Did the theme park not close when Falwell was still in control? I remember Jim saying something like "Falwell closed the park."

Not until toward the end of his control. The donations really dropped during Falwell's reign. The main reason was the partners and the regular donors were concerned that the ministry under Falwell's control... that the charismatic influence would gradually fade away. I have heard him mention that myself on one of his programs and my heart just sank.

Falwell and his staff soon found out without donations it couldn't go on. Just a few months before he did close down the water park (that was second to none) in size and scope. It was awesome... and (free) for my family for the rest of our lives among other things such as any hotel, including the Grand Hotel, bunkhouses, tree houses, and the huge new Twin Tower Hotel that was 90% completed at that time. We were what they called Lifetime Parters. Everything at the entire facility was free to my family for life. Even the food at the large main restaurant/cafeteria for us was 90% off.

I applied for a permanent job there. The facility had it's own Wastewater and Water Treatment Plants that needed a Superintendent. I was on their final few list. I already had the state license's to run both systems.

The last time we stayed there was in the middle of Falwell's control. We finally got to stay in (one) of the "tree house" condos for (28) days. They were always booked up other times. The condo type tree house was octagon shape with glass all the way around. Very nice.

Nothing was closed at that time but the rumors were circulating then that most of the 2,300 employees was put on notice. With that many employes... people don't realize just how large PTL was. They were pulling 6-8 million visitors annually (second in the U.S. at that time). The facility sat on 2,300 acres. The city that I live in here in Ohio has a population of just under 8,000 and sits on 2,400 acres. So one can only imagine the size of PTL.

Like I said... Falwell tried but eventually bowed down to his board of directors of his ministry in Lynchburg, Va. Before he shut down the water park... he did go down the water slide. That slide was the second fastest and largest in the U.S. at that time.

Several months after our final stay... we went there for the last time just to see it "one more time." This was even after Morris Cerullo had it for a while during the bankruptcy stage. We were actually in tears from what we saw. Totally abandoned. Totally falling apart. Water park bulldozed over.

One more thing... While we were there during Falwell's control we witnessed something that was very disgusting to us. When Bakker had control... he had a very strict policy that NOW ONE could smoke anywhere on the facility grounds. I remember watching one (local) young lady that threw a fit in the the water park that lit one up. The life guards went to her like a magnet. She stormed out of there and left.

Back to what disgusted us as I finish up... We were outside the main Heritage Grand Hotel entry way when several huge buses came and parked at the entry way. The people were pouring out of the buses. I thought Wow..! A bunch of visitors coming in. Attendance was very low so more people was a welcome.

All the buses had their denominational logos on the side with huge letters. (Not necessary to share (what) the denom was). Two of their deacons came out and approached the hotel entry door and I came up to them as a brother in Christ to welcome them. Both of them then in front of me lit up a cigarette. Then a third man hopped off the bus and came up and said to the two deacons, "hey guys... you have an extra one? The deacons said, "sure pastor!" No respect... no smoking signs all over the place. I think... at this point, I may have told my family... were going home.

Wow..! Sorry about the rant. You know how memories can be.

Have a good day reynolds...

Walk in THE BLESSING,

Harry...
​

 

[reynolds357]

Not until toward the end of his control. The donations really dropped during Falwell's reign. The main reason was the partners and the regular donors were concerned that the ministry under Falwell's control... that the charismatic influence would gradually fade away. I have heard him mention that myself on one of his programs and my heart just sank.

Falwell and his staff soon found out without donations it couldn't go on. Just a few months before he did close down the water park (that was second to none) in size and scope. It was awesome... and (free) for my family for the rest of our lives among other things such as any hotel, including the Grand Hotel, bunkhouses, tree houses, and the huge new Twin Tower Hotel that was 90% completed at that time. We were what they called Lifetime Parters. Everything at the entire facility was free to my family for life. Even the food at the large main restaurant/cafeteria for us was 90% off.

I applied for a permanent job there. The facility had it's own Wastewater and Water Treatment Plants that needed a Superintendent. I was on their final few list. I already had the state license's to run both systems.

The last time we stayed there was in the middle of Falwell's control. We finally got to stay in (one) of the "tree house" condos for (28) days. They were always booked up other times. The condo type tree house was octagon shape with glass all the way around. Very nice.

Nothing was closed at that time but the rumors were circulating then that most of the 2,300 employees was put on notice. With that many employes... people don't realize just how large PTL was. They were pulling 6-8 million visitors annually (second in the U.S. at that time). The facility sat on 2,300 acres. The city that I live in here in Ohio has a population of just under 8,000 and sits on 2,400 acres. So one can only imagine the size of PTL.

Like I said... Falwell tried but eventually bowed down to his board of directors of his ministry in Lynchburg, Va. Before he shut down the water park... he did go down the water slide. That slide was the second fastest and largest in the U.S. at that time.

Several months after our final stay... we went there for the last time just to see it "one more time." This was even after Morris Cerullo had it for a while during the bankruptcy stage. We were actually in tears from what we saw. Totally abandoned. Totally falling apart. Water park bulldozed over.

One more thing... While we were there during Falwell's control we witnessed something that was very disgusting to us. When Bakker had control... he had a very strict policy that NOW ONE could smoke anywhere on the facility grounds. I remember watching one (local) young lady that threw a fit in the the water park that lit one up. The life guards went to her like a magnet. She stormed out of there and left.

Back to what disgusted us as I finish up... We were outside the main Heritage Grand Hotel entry way when several huge buses came and parked at the entry way. The people were pouring out of the buses. I thought Wow..! A bunch of visitors coming in. Attendance was very low so more people was a welcome.

All the buses had their denominational logos on the side with huge letters. (Not necessary to share (what) the denom was). Two of their deacons came out and approached the hotel entry door and I came up to them as a brother in Christ to welcome them. Both of them then in front of me lit up a cigarette. Then a third man hopped off the bus and came up and said to the two deacons, "hey guys... you have an extra one? The deacons said, "sure pastor!" No respect... no smoking signs all over the place. I think... at this point, I may have told my family... were going home.

Wow..! Sorry about the rant. You know how memories can be.

Have a good day reynolds...

Walk in THE BLESSING,

Harry...
​

Thanks for the information. I always enjoy stories about PTL. I never got to go there, but I was always fascinated by it. It came to mind again when I saw that they had restored several areas in it. The barn and the upper room were the two they were showing.

 

[iluvtheSims]

Creflo Dollar imo, something about him... I saw someone stated that Kenneth Copeland was the worst TV evangelist, I can't say the same, I think the guy is a pretty good guy.

 

[paradox101]

Peter Popoff is a complete con artist. He preys on those in desperate situations and takes advantage of their beliefs. I signed up and continue to receive his mass mailings despite the fact I have not given a cent. I read them strictly for their entertainment value.
He doesn't even write very well, his points are all jumbled together and continuously uses scripture out of context.

To those who have given money and feel that he knows things about you and has made acute predictions in your life. Let me try to unveil his trickery, he sends out the same letter to every person in his database, only changing the names. He makes ambiguous predictions based on what the average person typically is going through.
For example, if he says ” someone out there is wearing a red shirt” , then probability says someone reading it will be bound to be wearing a red shirt. That person may think he is a prophet but what about the rest of the people reading that are not wearing red shirts?

So please, please keep in mind when you read his letters that if what he says matches your situation, it is only a coincidence because there are thousands who will not match his predictions. Also he is not praying for you, think about it, how many hours would he have to spend praying for the thousands of people for whom he sends his spam?

Finally, even if you do believe in prosperity or sowing a seed, wouldn’t it better to sow it toward a christian charity or a local food bank?
What do you think he is doing with your money? Spreading the gospel? NO, this is how he makes a living.

May we all become more informed about the world around us so we can make better decisions to shape our world.

 

[Alive_Again]

You should have read the threat before commenting. You've been set up! It's been decided emphatically that commenting in this way about ministers of the gospel is a bad idea.

You may feel that certain people are off base, but you really can't see their heart.

The sad thing is that our words are recorded in Heaven. You don't want to go down "popping off" about something you really don't have the inside on, right?

Generally speaking, when people ask questions like this, it is the enemy planting the suggestion and something like a "golf tee" is set up. The takers bend down and put their heads on it. The results are always bad (always).

Really, this thread should have been removed some time ago because it's a bad idea to speculate on people's ministries. If you have a doctrine you want to examine, that would be legitimate. That's the stuff we're supposed to be evaluating, not the people. If by revelation (outside of yourself) you receive something, under certain circumstances you might be able to share, but usually that is not a public thing either. That would be to protect you, or to cause you to intercede (not to gossip).

The best thing you can do (after repenting), is to pray for anyone you feel this way about and speak wisdom and the fear of the Lord over their life and ministries, that way you can be a part of the solution, instead of a continuation of a potential problem.

 

[hhodgson]

Generally speaking, when people ask questions like this, it is the enemy planting the suggestion and something like a "golf tee" is set up. The takers bend down and put their heads on it. The results are always bad (always).

The best thing you can do (after repenting), is to pray for anyone you feel this way about and speak wisdom and the fear of the Lord over their life and ministries, that way you can be a part of the solution, instead of a continuation of a potential problem.

Good advise and well said AA...

As we (the poster and I) did with Jim Bakker, Falwell and Cerrullo. We didn't give Satan "no place" in our remarks to either of them in the discussions about the PTL scandals and their ministries. We could have "bashed" them. Instead we uplifted their ministries.

I pray that your response reaches the previous poster's heart. God will deal with any ministry that is out of line. He doesn't need any help from us. If we can't say anything good about someone, Christian or not.... our lips should be sealed.

This thread started out with some very negative remarks but has cleaned up as it progressed forward. Thank God for repentant hearts that have been displayed in later posts.

A perfect example of God's LOVE is found in (reynolds357) post #39 to (OldDogDiver). Both responses were awesome. That $10,000 donation (for Copes' jet) was not in vain. God sees the heart. God said He would BLESS us going in and BLESS us going out.

I have suggested to (others) that post here... if there is a REAL interest, they could go back and catch up on some of what was already said by some of the other posters before making any comments.

Good call AA...

Walk in THE BLESSING,

Harry...
​