Worst Tel-evangelists?

[hhodgson]

?? did you comment just to tell me what you thought about ME? or do you have some thoughts on the OP.

Actually, Andrea... My comments were not meant to be about you or ladyjazz. It's about what was being said where the problem lies. I actually agree with much of what was said but,... this forum is "congregational" with like-minded WoF Christians, and some of our senior and other founding members spent countless hours working together in this forum to make it what it is today... and I suppose our forum could be considered a "safehouse" for us as Word of Faith believers.

As I said... this is not the place to discuss where this thread was heading... which COULD have led to debating "for or against" about Ken Copeland Ministries... who, BTW... most here look to him as WoF's main minister and speaker... since Ken Hagin went to be with the Lord.

These types of (could be) debatable threads from non-members are advised by the moderators to do so in the Spirit-Filled/Charismatic Debate forum which was designed for just that. I am sure you are aware of this. Several of our own members regularly share in debates in that section of CF.

It appears that the current Spirit-Filled/Charismatic Forum is in process of changing and returning back to their beginning Statement of Purpose (SOP) in hopes to making it more hospitable, as it once was. I do nose around there at times, and have a highly respect for many of the members... including you. I have enjoyed your posts.

Andrea... I pray that you and ladyjazz understand why we do what we did in response to this thread. (that could have been worded better)

You are both blessed... Thanks for popping in and don't be a stranger. OK?

Greater works...

_____________
Harry
​

 

[hhodgson]

I wish they'd delete this! Sheesh, i feel terrible!
God Bless this Mess!

Ladyjazz... Your previous post about Mike Murdock was funny and I especially like your signature on this one... (God Bless this Mess!) highlighted above. That's awesome. I had to re-read it to make sure I read it right.

In God's eyes... We were ALL a mess, but NOW!... were the apple of His eye (Psa 17:8). We are His workmanship (Eph 2:10). We are His beloved. (Col 3:12).

Please do not regret coming up here... and, as far as feeling terrible? You are blessed... Do you realize that God knew that you would post here before the foundations of the entire universe was even created?

Isn't God awesome? And in His eyes... so are you...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry
​

 

[Andrea411]

I regret posting this. I was watching mike murdoch one nite and got so mad i called in and told the phone lady to quit her job! Lol. Im sorry to cause arguing here. My intentions were not that, but unfortunately it turned out this way. I certainly DID NOT mean to offend or create havoc. Sorry again.

As the one who opened the thread - you are the only one who can close it. Unless the mods do it for a rule procedure problem.

God bless, andrea

 

[Andrea411]

Actually, Andrea... My comments were not meant to be about you or ladyjazz. It's about what was being said where the problem lies. I actually agree with much of what was said but,... this forum is "congregational" with like-minded WoF Christians, and some of our senior and other founding members spent countless hours working together in this forum to make it what it is today... and I suppose our forum could be considered a "safehouse" for us as Word of Faith believers.

As I said... this is not the place to discuss where this thread was heading... which COULD have led to debating "for or against" about Ken Copeland Ministries... who, BTW... most here look to him as WoF's main minister and speaker... since Ken Hagin went to be with the Lord.

These types of (could be) debatable threads from non-members are advised by the moderators to do so in the Spirit-Filled/Charismatic Debate forum which was designed for just that. I am sure you are aware of this. Several of our own members regularly share in debates in that section of CF.

It appears that the current Spirit-Filled/Charismatic Forum is in process of changing and returning back to their beginning Statement of Purpose (SOP) in hopes to making it more hospitable, as it once was. I do nose around there at times, and have a highly respect for many of the members... including you. I have enjoyed your posts.

Andrea... I pray that you and ladyjazz understand why we do what we did in response to this thread. (that could have been worded better)

You are both blessed... Thanks for popping in and don't be a stranger. OK?

Greater works...

_____________
Harry
​

No problem, I didn't see expressing opinions about individuals as a problem but I do agree it can quickly become one. That said, I'm still not sure of what the new rules mean in the Spirit -filled section. Or why this would go to the debate section. I dislike debating. It tends to bring out the more argumentative types.
I spent a long time on CARM and it was a terrible place to discuss WoF people or doctrine... ugh. So I understand why there needs to be a safe place.
Again, I believe in the principles of WoF and have lived by them and seen the Lord's hand work in my life and the people around me are often blessed as well.

That might be a good thread, how the Lord blesses those around us that are in our sphere of influence, even while they themselves might not believe the same way.
I'm at work so no time now... God bless, thanks for the kind words, andrea

 

[now faith]

I have been to fundamental churches that teach that if you don't tithe you will be under the curse. That is the same as saying if you give me your tithe money you will be blessed.

We need to get beyond taking offense. Psalm 119:165
" Those who love Your law have great peace,
And nothing causes them to stumble." NASB
take offense KJV

When you take offense you invalidate the word of God working in your life by quenching the Holy Spirit. Listen to the teachers and throw out the bones. If there are too many bones listen to someone else.

In the past I have had trouble with Copeland. But I'll tell you this. I have been encouraged by him so much. When I need to be uplifted I go to the Believers Voice of Victory on the WEB and listen to the devotion. They have very good teachings.

They have a card of Psalm 91 they hand out to service men. This is very good. They do many good works. They teach faith well.

No way bro not under a curse,you will just suffer poverty.
Just kidding

On Copeland he is human and can make mistakes,less far less than I do but still..

I am blessed by all the teachers with God's anointing on them.

Pastor Teacher,Evangelist Kenneth Copeland has brought out great knowledge in his work.
His faith is a wonderful example for all of us.
His work will always have a place in my heart.

 

[hhodgson]

I have been to fundamental churches that teach that if you don't tithe you will be under the curse. That is the same as saying if you give me your tithe money you will be blessed.

Actually Scott... I have heard that multiple times also... as many of us did. You would probably agree that we now KNOW that we are already fully blessed... whether we tithe, give or not. I will deal more with that later...
​

When you take offense you invalidate the word of God working in your life by quenching the Holy Spirit. Listen to the teachers and throw out the bones. If there are too many bones listen to someone else.

In the past I have had trouble with Copeland. But I'll tell you this. I have been encouraged by him so much. When I need to be uplifted I go to the Believers Voice of Victory on the WEB and listen to the devotion. They have very good teachings.

Absolutely correct on taking offense as you put it. Also agree with you on Cope...
​

 

[Basha21]

“All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” - Jesus Himself speaking, John 8:7

How about taking all the energy you are spending on criticizing and bashing ministers and put it into helping others instead?

We all fall short - in many ways - but the fruit of some of these earthly vessels you are being critical of is massive for the Kingdom.

I've only been on this site a few days and was really excited to find it. But you're right, there's an awful lot of negativity and judging other people harshly. Doing that just keeps me from receiving from God.

How much more should we, as Christians, know that we shouldn't speak evil of others. We know in part the Bible says. So do they!

I feel that if we see what we think is error in someone else, we need to pray for them. And then ask God to show us our own errors--which are usually more than enough to keep us busy!

Remember folks, take the telephone pole out of your own eye before taking the toothpick out of someone else's. (obviously paraphrased )

 

[Andrea411]

I've only been on this site a few days and was really excited to find it. But you're right, there's an awful lot of negativity and judging other people harshly. Doing that just keeps me from receiving from God.

How much more should we, as Christians, know that we shouldn't speak evil of others. We know in part the Bible says. So do they!

I feel that if we see what we think is error in someone else, we need to pray for them. And then ask God to show us our own errors--which are usually more than enough to keep us busy!

Remember folks, take the telephone pole out of your own eye before taking the toothpick out of someone else's. (obviously paraphrased )

Hi Basha, anonymous forums can truly bring out the ugly. It can be very discouraging. This section WoF is usually nicer then most.

I use my real name on ALL forums I go to... it holds me accountable for my words. But I get tired and angry too. Sometimes, I haven't had my coffee and I get up in the morning and read some nonsense (IMHO) and mouth off. I may be sorry later... it helps me to remember others may be sorry too.

Welcome. It also might help to remember that there is no voice inflection or facial responses, no hand gestures that soften the words. It is helpful to add those little emoticons to give a post a tone or write it in...

God bless, andrea

 

[Ted Lang]

When I need to be uplifted I go to the Believers Voice of Victory on the WEB and listen to the devotion. They have very good teachings.

Why would you do that? He teaches tithing is God's Will, which can be proven from the New Covenant and there is much blessing in it as the tithe goes to support the five fold ministry just like under the OT it when to the Levites.

Those that do not tithe are demonstrating to God that they refuse to financially support His ministry to the people for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry.

On thing is for sure, you will reap what you sow... so not supporting God's ministry is not the way to go. Besides, it's only about putting God first... but, it's no biggie right?

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also - Jesus

I know, I know... folks will now come on and say they give more than 10% but they do not tithe. They probably don't know about "tithing the tithe" which all WOF people should know about. Copeland used to teach on it.

 

[Basha21]

Hi Basha, anonymous forums can truly bring out the ugly. It can be very discouraging. This section WoF is usually nicer then most.

I use my real name on ALL forums I go to... it holds me accountable for my words. But I get tired and angry too. Sometimes, I haven't had my coffee and I get up in the morning and read some nonsense (IMHO) and mouth off. I may be sorry later... it helps me to remember others may be sorry too.

Welcome. It also might help to remember that there is no voice inflection or facial responses, no hand gestures that soften the words. It is helpful to add those little emoticons to give a post a tone or write it in...

God bless, andrea

Hi Andrea, Thank you so much for the warm welcome. If this section is the nicest, I'm somewhat disheartened, but I know I need to give it time. After all, we are all God's children and we are all learning, myself no less than anyone else. And you're absolutely right about not being able to pick up on tone and inflection in writing. Smilies here I come!

Just think of what a forum like this would be like if it had posts from the unbelievers. Eek! That's a good idea to use your real name. I didn't really think of that after years of using aliases everywhere online. But along that vein, I kept reading posts and thinking, "Walk in love, walk in love, walk in love . . . " So I decided to just go pray and go to bed last night. It did help (of course).

But thank you for telling me about your experiences with getting a little fed up, that helps me. If we give into it, then we just have to go repent later! I'm endeavoring to keep my mouth shut before I need to do that, but . . . well you know. Thanks again. Have a great day!

 

[Scottmcc1]

Welcome Basha21,

I enjoy the forums. but as Andrea said we are hampered by only sharing ideas without the personal touch so to speak of being face to face. But love can prevail if you keep your eyes on Jesus.

Share in faith what the Lord is saying to you and trust the word will do its work. Faith works through love. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[Basha21]

Welcome Basha21,

I enjoy the forums. but as Andrea said we are hampered by only sharing ideas without the personal touch so to speak of being face to face. But love can prevail if you keep your eyes on Jesus.

Share in faith what the Lord is saying to you and trust the word will do its work. Faith works through love. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Thanks so much for your response, Scott. You're absolutely correct. I need to tape this post to my forehead so I see it every time I walk by the mirror! I'd tape Andrea's response to my forehead too, but then it would cover my face and I'd walk into the wall. I appreciate your response.

 

[Andrea411]

Thanks so much for your response, Scott. You're absolutely correct. I need to tape this post to my forehead so I see it every time I walk by the mirror! I'd tape Andrea's response to my forehead too, but then it would cover my face and I'd walk into the wall. I appreciate your response.

Oh and there is the best little feature... its the ignore. In your profile you can go and put particular individuals on ignore. It can make the whole place so nice... bc its usually one or two who are negative that ruin the whole atmosphere.
You can read their posts if you want but once I put someone on ignore I usually do not respond to their posts for at least a few months. Otherwise I find, I want to get ugly and then thats my fault not theirs. It may be that in a few months we'll be friendly. That has happened here a few times for me.

I think of CF as training ground for the real world. If we as Christians are nasty to the brethren when we disagree with them.... that is something WE need to deal with. If we can't respond in love to the unlovelies... that are Christian, then how on God's green earth do we look to the world of unbelievers? It is actually a really great place to see yourself under duress. Go back once in awhile and read your responses to people and think about how it would look to others. I've learned a lot about myself, much that I didn't know and too much that I didn't like. The Lord knew... so then we choose, do we repent, how do we respond? Do we go back and apologize to the nitwit that just offended me and was so rude? WWJD.

I use ignore when I know the other person is now entrenched in their view of me or my opinion, their ego is in the way of any healing and I have become a hindrance to their growth or mine. I don't want to cause others to stumble, so ignore isn't just to make your life easier, its to get out of the way and allow maybe someone else to interact with them. Someone that they can relate to in a healthier manner.

We know Jesus was offended for us... it can be very humbling and if we can't do it on an anonymous forum...??? my thought, we've got greater problems then someone offending us...

God bless, andrea

 

[Ted Lang]

its usually one or two who are negative that ruin the whole atmosphere

Best way to not be negative is quite quoting God's Word and instead quote one of the popular TV preachers!

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loves he corrects, and scourges every son whom he receives.
If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[Andrea411]

Best way to not be negative is quite quoting God's Word and instead quote one of the popular TV preachers!

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loves he corrects, and scourges every son whom he receives.
If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Ted you were one of the people I had in mind when I said trying to encourage them to be kind or to think another way may only entrench them into a position that is not helpful to anyone.
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt... I go onto their CP and see what they have posted to others... so if they are always negative, I try to point that out to them. Hopefully it produces conviction and they can see what I saw. If that doesn't work there is no benefit for anyone for me to continue to interact with them and it only brings hard feelings and makes for a poor atmosphere for young Christians or unbelievers. Then I put those people on my ignore list and it's no longer my problem. Bye

 

[Basha21]

Oh and there is the best little feature... its the ignore. In your profile you can go and put particular individuals on ignore. It can make the whole place so nice... bc its usually one or two who are negative that ruin the whole atmosphere.
You can read their posts if you want but once I put someone on ignore I usually do not respond to their posts for at least a few months. Otherwise I find, I want to get ugly and then thats my fault not theirs. It may be that in a few months we'll be friendly. That has happened here a few times for me.

I think of CF as training ground for the real world. If we as Christians are nasty to the brethren when we disagree with them.... that is something WE need to deal with. If we can't respond in love to the unlovelies... that are Christian, then how on God's green earth do we look to the world of unbelievers? It is actually a really great place to see yourself under duress. Go back once in awhile and read your responses to people and think about how it would look to others. I've learned a lot about myself, much that I didn't know and too much that I didn't like. The Lord knew... so then we choose, do we repent, how do we respond? Do we go back and apologize to the nitwit that just offended me and was so rude? WWJD.

I use ignore when I know the other person is now entrenched in their view of me or my opinion, their ego is in the way of any healing and I have become a hindrance to their growth or mine. I don't want to cause others to stumble, so ignore isn't just to make your life easier, its to get out of the way and allow maybe someone else to interact with them. Someone that they can relate to in a healthier manner.

We know Jesus was offended for us... it can be very humbling and if we can't do it on an anonymous forum...??? my thought, we've got greater problems then someone offending us...

God bless, andrea

Thank you for your wise and helpful words, Andrea. I wondered if there was an ignore button! So yes, put them on ignore for a while, then go back in a few months. They may have grown, I may have grown, hopefully we've both grown and we can just be friends and accept that we all have differences.

You're so right about getting out of their way to let someone else interact with them. Its always good to look at things from others' viewpoints and see how I might be hindering their walk with God with my words, even if I'm trying to speak in love. If we think of it as not letting ourselves get offended, but by stepping aside and being unselfish, it might actually minister to someone else, that will help me a lot. I'm not talking about you or anyone else, lol. God's really leading me to be much more UNselfish in my life and your words have truly helped me. Its funny how often I think I'm doing okay and all the sudden--here He comes--gently telling me that no, that wasn't what He needed from me, do this too! I learned a long time ago that He's never, ever done with me, there is always more to do.

And that's a great idea to go back and check our own posts at times to see exactly what we said and how we may have sounded to someone else and how we can work on that in the future. I did notice the SORRY button, but much better to realize it before you put it on paper and have to go apologize (nothing wrong with apologizing when we need to, though). You said something yesterday about being anonymous on here, too; and that really touched me. It can make it too easy to say things that you're not accountable for (except to God!).

Have a nice day Andrea and thanks so much for your help. So Christian Forums is going to be a growing place for me. I had no idea!

 

[Basha21]

Welcome Basha21,

I enjoy the forums. but as Andrea said we are hampered by only sharing ideas without the personal touch so to speak of being face to face. But love can prevail if you keep your eyes on Jesus.

Share in faith what the Lord is saying to you and trust the word will do its work. Faith works through love. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Thanks, Scott. You all are welcoming, wise and wonderful! I like it here.

 

[Ted Lang]

if they are always negative, I try to point that out to them

Just ask them to refrain from posting any scripture, that way nobody will be offended and we can all sing kumbayah as there is no longer any difference between many of those that claim to be Christians and other religions of the world.

The big push is starting for "unity" to bring all religions together under what will become the one world religion... I dare say extreme grace adherents will fall right in lock step with the rest of the world since to do otherwise would be "negative".

Yessir, there is definitely a counterfeit jesus running around teachin stuff that many are falling for.

 

[reynolds357]

Are you WOF?

Are you aware that many of these folks, like Copeland, own multitudes of businesses and investments that are very successful and they earn much money from them (and employs lots of people)? Did you know that they write books and receive income from the books? There is no proof they rape the ministry for their money. In fact, their ministry gives away (free) hundreds of thousands of resources for people all over the world.

Why does owning planes and cars disturb you so much? Did you know that having those tools allows them to travel all over the world spreading the Word of God and to help others? Why would it be evil to be rich and use the money for the ministry?

Where do you draw the line? One car only? One modest little apartment? I'm always curious when people criticize rich folks for being rich - especially when those rich people contribute millions to the work of God. :o

How many people can one help if they are not abundantly blessed with wealth? Not many.

My views of Kenneth Copeland have changed a bit. I used to be a partner with his ministry. I am even a Citation X partner with his ministry. That means I gave $10,000 to his ministry toward purchasing that jet. After he bought the jet, he has done very little with it. He bought the jet and almost quit traveling. In his earlier days of ministry, that type jet would have been a great asset. Today, I am not so convinced it is not just a "want" and not a true "need." I love Brother Copeland, and have learned much from him. I will always be grateful to him for that.

 

[Basha21]

I agree with ODD, but I wanted to say that when Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye went through that mess years ago, a minister told me that as long as I was obedient to what God told me to do as far as contributing to that ministry, then it wasn't any of my concern at that point. And that's true. That was between them and God; and God (and the law) dealt with them.

If you were led by your spirit, then you did what you were supposed to do. So you can console yourself in that fact. God still would have blessed you for your obedience. Right? God wanted to bless YOU by telling you to give those offerings. Then its out of your hands. Its not yours any more. It's Kenneth Copeland's responsibility and he has to answer to God if he's right or wrong.

On the other hand, KC is 77 years old and I'm not sure how much travel he's obligated to do at this point. I keep an eye on his itinerary and if I'm doing that much at his age, I'll think I'm doing pretty well!

Honestly, if I'd given that much money for the jet, I may have had thoughts, also But if he actually needed a new plane, then he needed a new plane. I'm not trying to give you a hard time about it, its just a different perspective. These are just things God has been dealing with me about, so may not apply to you at all!