Worst Tel-evangelists?

[ladyjazz]

Hi guys! I try to be upbeat and non-judging, but some of these tv folks really anger me! Id like to hear yours and share mine, and we dont need to fight or nuthin. Mayb we can learn a thing or two. And im no great Christian, but i truly try! I do...

1- Robert Tilton, wow! If i ever saw a fake, this mans it! Send me ypur 1000 dollar love gift. He only pulls up scripture that deals w giving and his tounges are fake. Does he understand that we have a GOD? Like dude, there is a judgment! Youtube him, for a laugh and for me, a sorrow too, cuz making money in Jesus name saddens me,

2- Mike Murdoch, same thing! Gimme your money and he looks evil! Scam, scam, scam.

3- Peter Popoff. He was exposed as a fraud. Ppl came to get healed and they would write their name, addy and illness on a card. When he came on stage a he had a hidden earpiece that a woman would give him info such as, " is there a lady namef sue here w lupus, well JESUS wants to heal you" That woman jumped on stage and poopoff, got his cash for the nite. Pretty sick! Didnt Jesus get most angry at the money changers? Where is his fear of God?

4- Paula White. Somethings not right, Thats all i know.

 

[ladyjazz]

All these folks are on youtube so....

But there are many youtube Christians so hardcore, they think everyone is evil! One nutty guy said Billy Graham is a fake illuminati devil worshipper. Sigh,...

 

[Andrea411]

Hi guys! I try to be upbeat and non-judging, but some of these tv folks really anger me! Id like to hear yours and share mine, and we dont need to fight or nuthin. Mayb we can learn a thing or two. And im no great Christian, but i truly try! I do...

1- Robert Tilton, wow! If i ever saw a fake, this mans it! Send me ypur 1000 dollar love gift. He only pulls up scripture that deals w giving and his tounges are fake. Does he understand that we have a GOD? Like dude, there is a judgment! Youtube him, for a laugh and for me, a sorrow too, cuz making money in Jesus name saddens me,

2- Mike Murdoch, same thing! Gimme your money and he looks evil! Scam, scam, scam.

3- Peter Popoff. He was exposed as a fraud. Ppl came to get healed and they would write their name, addy and illness on a card. When he came on stage a he had a hidden earpiece that a woman would give him info such as, " is there a lady namef sue here w lupus, well JESUS wants to heal you" That woman jumped on stage and poopoff, got his cash for the nite. Pretty sick! Didnt Jesus get most angry at the money changers? Where is his fear of God?

4- Paula White. Somethings not right, Thats all i know.

After I say that I am inclined agree with your assessment of these particular TV personalities, please tell me what you think is edifying about discussing them? Is there any good that comes from tearing people down? It might be helpful to look at what makes a good evangelists and what the scriptures say about tithing or trying to con people but to just discuss who we think are bad people isn't much better than gossip…

Are there any TV evangelists that you approve of… I like Jos. Prince, I haven't watched him much but I have always received an edifying message from him without the whole $$ thing. I also like J.Meyers, clearly more of a 'life coach' than an evangelist or preacher. I know Joel O. is somewhat off base but I enjoy his stories and have found them very helpful in examining my own walk with the Lord.
Again, I probably don't watch any of these people but once a month and I don't send any of them money.

I really like Ravi Zacharias but I don't think he is on TV.
My fav of all time is a radio guy, Wayne Monbleau of Loving Grace Ministries, he has two telethons a year where he tells you exactly what he needs to continue on the radio. He was extremely helpful during my early walk with the Lord 30 years ago. I do send the latter two donations.

Do you have any favorites?

 

[ladyjazz]

I do have ppl i enjoy. Charles Stanley, humbled and wise. Derek Prince, gets into warfare which im studying. Joyce, cuz i need Gods healing love. Joeseph Prince: just good vibes! Really passionate and les feldnick (sp) no non-sense, right on Bible w no FLASH!

Yes, its not edifying, however, its important for me and others to share if we see.something amiss. When i was searching,.tv was the only place i searched, and it led to a lot of trouble. Plus.im still learning and i need to be warned! New Christians need direction. I wanna know what others think about the bad guys, and as i stated, knowing Jesus better now, when i watch.some of.these guys, i want to flip tables over, ya know?

 

[Andrea411]

I do have ppl i enjoy. Charles Stanley, humbled and wise. Derek Prince, gets into warfare which im studying. Joyce, cuz i need Gods healing love. Joeseph Prince: just good vibes! Really passionate and les feldnick (sp) no non-sense, right on Bible w no FLASH!

Yes, its not edifying, however, its important for me and others to share if we see.something amiss. When i was searching,.tv was the only place i searched, and it led to a lot of trouble. Plus.im still learning and i need to be warned! New Christians need direction. I wanna know what others think about the bad guys, and as i stated, knowing Jesus better now, when i watch.some of.these guys, i want to flip tables over, ya know?

I forgot about Derek Prince, he has been significant to me personally… just love listening to him. The passion he had for the Lord and the obedience to the call. If you get a chance listen to his biography. The man was a genius.
His ministry lives on and so many wonderful teachings on You Tube.

Another I'm just starting to become familiar with is N.T.Wright. His book "Surprised by Hope' is on sale on kindle for $2.99. FANTASTIC! Gave me such a good and clear picture of the resurrection and the power that has in our lives today. This salvation we have is not just for after we die, its for living today. He is Anglican but he is really non-denominational. He goes after everybody in a very intellectual way… great read. I couldn't put it down and with the kindle you can hit any word and the meanings or scriptures come up. I will re-read that book.

I have a real problem with Paula White, one with the sexy way she dresses. Two with the "give me $77.77 on 7/7/07 so that God can bless you 77x… ugh ugh ugh…. plus her appeal is so often toward poor woman…. there are way too many rumors about her exploits not to have some truth to them. I don't want to speculate but there was plenty about her in Christian magazines and not tabloids.

My daughter really enjoys C.Stanley, I find him a little too dry. Never liked Schuller either… or his theology but liked his son.
Don't care for Feldnick but I haven't listened to him enough to know why?? I have a bit of a problem with K.Copeland, simply bc he has 5 private planes, numerous cars, motorcycles and extras, plus an air strip in his backyard… I just have a problem with people getting rich from the gospel. They preach it takes like $.87 to get someone saved in Africa but then spend 5 million on a new plane ??? Same with B.Hinn.

I don't dislike the Word of Faith teachings its the abuse of those teachings and the way they don't allow for the reality of life. I've known wonderful Christians who have horrible things happen to them and the bible is full of people who suffered for their faith. I believe the WoF teachings are good to stir our faith they must come with a very healthy dose of reality. That's where a teacher like Derek Prince is good to offset the WoF with Faith teachings, minus the prosperity gospel.

For sound teachings on You Tube Ravi Zacharias is excellent. I'm charismatic and I don't think he is but he is respectful of all, as is Wright. Never saw any good come from denigrating someone's faith. teach the truth the best you know it and let the Lord do the rest. People truly seeking His will - find it.

God bless, andrea

 

[Andrea411]

All these folks are on youtube so....

But there are many youtube Christians so hardcore, they think everyone is evil! One nutty guy said Billy Graham is a fake illuminati devil worshipper. Sigh,...

Be very careful of the sites where they say EXPOSED!!! these people make a living off of every evil and then its as if they lose sight of what is good. When you want to be able to discern good from evil, study the good. The evil will become apparent. The word tells us to keep our minds on whatsoever is good…
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 9 The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

When listening or reading people when I see them always taking on the negative it reminds me of "what you have hated you have become"… its as if when people invest in the ugly, they become the very thing they hate. You'll see that on these forums also. Sad to say but true. Remember that people don't have facial expressions, or voice tone and hand gestures to soften what they say so give people the benefit of the doubt… but continual arguing is most often fruitless.

God bless, andrea

 

[OldDogDiver]

I have a bit of a problem with K.Copeland, simply bc he has 5 private planes, numerous cars, motorcycles and extras, plus an air strip in his backyard… I just have a problem with people getting rich from the gospel. They preach it takes like $.87 to get someone saved in Africa but then spend 5 million on a new plane ???

Are you WOF?

Are you aware that many of these folks, like Copeland, own multitudes of businesses and investments that are very successful and they earn much money from them (and employs lots of people)? Did you know that they write books and receive income from the books? There is no proof they rape the ministry for their money. In fact, their ministry gives away (free) hundreds of thousands of resources for people all over the world.

Why does owning planes and cars disturb you so much? Did you know that having those tools allows them to travel all over the world spreading the Word of God and to help others? Why would it be evil to be rich and use the money for the ministry?

Where do you draw the line? One car only? One modest little apartment? I'm always curious when people criticize rich folks for being rich - especially when those rich people contribute millions to the work of God. :o

How many people can one help if they are not abundantly blessed with wealth? Not many.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

Derek Prince taught prosperity/ abundance:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...=iS-vrJWGeq2dxtg-CZDy_w&bvm=bv.66917471,d.d2k

 

[Andrea411]

Are you WOF?

Are you aware that many of these folks, like Copeland, own multitudes of businesses and investments that are very successful and they earn much money from them (and employs lots of people)? Did you know that they write books and receive income from the books? There is no proof they rape the ministry for their money. In fact, their ministry gives away (free) hundreds of thousands of resources for people all over the world.

Why does owning planes and cars disturb you so much? Did you know that having those tools allows them to travel all over the world spreading the Word of God and to help others? Why would it be evil to be rich and use the money for the ministry?

Where do you draw the line? One car only? One modest little apartment? I'm always curious when people criticize rich folks for being rich - especially when those rich people contribute millions to the work of God. :o

How many people can one help if they are not abundantly blessed with wealth? Not many.

I am aware and have followed many of the WoF principles for years. The Lord has been so good to us, I don't need to defend my thoughts about these people they were clearly just my feelings about them. I am entitled to express them and I don't criticize rich people - I do criticize people who lie and manipulate the gospel for their own means.
I think the tithe has been manipulated. I believe in giving to God from the heart… not in tithing to any specific evangelist.

God bless, andrea

 

[Alive_Again]

This sounds like: "Hey! Who's the least favorite member of your family?

My brother Bob really needs his head examined?!!! Anyone else agree (put your head in the guillotine?)?

People get into all sorts of the wrong stuff. I think you've entered into the same here.

I live in Dallas, and for those who don't know or remember, the Word of Faith church, was one of the most popular churches in America. It had a reputation of a powerful healing anointing. They had a collection of crutches and wheelchairs at the front, and it was no sham.

He called out the head of the KKK in a prophetic word (without knowing who he was), walking right up to him with his eyes closed. He didn't condemn him, but the Lord challenged him to repent. The gifts flowed. Someone I knew was on the music ministry team and every WOF preacher around preached in his church. The last time I went I saw Norvel Hayes. The teaching at that church was wonderful. I do believe it was off center on the financial side of things, and it built an expectation of prosperity based on the wrong foundation of giving to receive.

The Lord used it mightily. It's sad that it got turned aside and it surely did. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be mourning what happened and carefully dissuade believers who do what the world does (eat their dead). I'd LOVE to go back there in that day.

They had the best bookstore around and I noticed all of the other wonderful anointed books were gone and only Bob's remained that something was wrong. Anyway, it can happen to anyone. Ministers of his caliber are BIG targets for the enemy, and if you give him something to eat, you're in trouble. I don't know what he's up to now. He definitely had the call to preach (presumably pastor). If that is so, the Lord does not repent of that calling, so he'd still have a desire to minister.

Depending on his repentance, he could definitely come into some kind of ministry and that would not necessarily be wrong. It's not for us (individually) to judge whether or not that is so.

As far as Peter goes, he also had a valid ministry. He didn't need to drum it up any. I'm guessing there was a turn and he took up where the Lord let off. He's still a believer and a preacher and he still leads people to the Lord, in spite of all of the believers who "prepare the way" by letting everyone know the mistakes he made. Surely you don't want to be in that crowd.

If you've ever read any of Mike's books,you know he hears from God. Now that is not a permanent thing as it has to be maintained by walking in the plan of God in prayer and obedience.

It's a dangerous thing to go "popping off" on the family of God because I don't think God's really into that. I see it as ignorance, but you can pick up a "blight" and become judgmental REAL easily, and it's an ugly thing to wear (I've worn it many times.).

It gets slipped into a conversation and your agreement picks up defilement. So be warned to alter your perspective on this. I'm not condemning you, but this is so common, and if you've ever been a victim of this kind of talk (even on the Net), you begin to see it for what it is.

 

[OldDogDiver]

It's a dangerous thing to go "popping off" on the family of God because I don't think God's really into that. [/B] I see it as ignorance, but you can pick up a "blight" and become judgmental REAL easily, and it's an ugly thing to wear (I've worn it many times.).

It gets slipped into a conversation and your agreement picks up defilement. So be warned to alter your perspective on this. I'm not condemning you, but this is so common, and if you've ever been a victim of this kind of talk (even on the Net), you begin to see it for what it is.

 

[OldDogDiver]

I am aware and have followed many of the WoF principles for years. The Lord has been so good to us, I don't need to defend my thoughts about these people they were clearly just my feelings about them. I am entitled to express them and I don't criticize rich people - I do criticize people who lie and manipulate the gospel for their own means.
I think the tithe has been manipulated. I believe in giving to God from the heart… not in tithing to any specific evangelist.

God bless, andrea

You didn't answer my questions. I gave you facts about these people you are bashing and you just came back with more bashing.

 

[hhodgson]

Hi guys! I try to be upbeat and non-judging, but. And I'm no great Christian, but i truly try! I do...

1- Robert Tilton, wow! If i ever saw a fake, this mans it!

2- Mike Murdoch, same thing! Gimme your money and he looks evil! Scam, scam, scam.

3- Peter Popoff. He was exposed as a fraud.

4- Paula White. Somethings not right, Thats all i know.

Well ladyjazz... welcome to our forum, but... So much for being upbeat and non-judging! You had a pretty rough landing when you came in here. You started out good until you added the "but." Then it went down hill. This is not the forum for this. And really... I don't think anywhere on CF would accept this.

Is this your first post on our forum? If so, then it's not a very good introduction. I too have some concerns with these four... and I could add 50 more if I were to create a list of Christians that... "somethings not right" as you say for Paula White.

Just curious... Why isn't Benny Hinn on the list? You know, Hinn and Paula!

You don't know me but you might well add my name also. I haven't quite arrived yet either, however... I am forgiven. You know what? So are they! Let us let God decide whether there is/was genuine repentance from them.

Other than that...

Welcome, and believe me... you are indeed welcome, But... suggest to (re-start up with a "hello, I'm new here"), or something to that effect.

After I say that I am inclined agree with your assessment of these particular TV personalities,
please tell me what you think is edifying about discussing them? Is there any good that comes from tearing people down? It might be helpful to look at what makes a good evangelists and what the scriptures say about tithing or trying to con people but to just discuss who we think are bad people isn't much better than gossip…

Do you have any favorites?

Hmmm... yes, were still waiting on more of ladyjazz's favorites. BTW, Andrea, I highlighted the area I thought was good where you started out... but then, these next two quotes went a little down hill from there. (IMO)

I have a real problem with Paula White, one with the sexy way she dresses. Two with the "give me $77.77 on 7/7/07 so that God can bless you 77x… ugh ugh ugh…. plus her appeal is so often toward poor woman…. there are way too many rumors about her exploits not to have some truth to them. I don't want to speculate but there was plenty about her in Christian magazines and not tabloids.

Remember... Some of her exploits involved Benny Hinn, but he gets a pass? (at least on this thread).

I have a bit of a problem with K.Copeland, simply bc he has 5 private planes, numerous cars, motorcycles and extras, plus an air strip in his backyard… I just have a problem with people getting rich from the gospel. They preach it takes like $.87 to get someone saved in Africa but then spend 5 million on a new plane ??? Same with B.Hinn.

I'm not 100% for Copeland either, but... OldDogDiver pretty well covered this part and He did quite well with a good response.

I don't dislike the Word of Faith teachings its the abuse of those teachings and the way they don't allow for the reality of life. I've known wonderful Christians who have horrible things happen to them and the bible is full of people who suffered for their faith. I believe the WoF teachings are good to stir our faith they must come with a very healthy dose of reality. That's where a teacher like Derek Prince is good to offset the WoF with Faith teachings, minus the prosperity gospel.

This part is not too bad at all, Andrea... and we all would agree with you about (some) Christians getting rich from the gospel, however... ending this paragraph with... "minus the prosperity gospel" goes to far. Derek Prince touches on it also. Yes, were all against "the excesses."

When listening or reading people when I see them always taking on the negative it reminds me of "what you have hated you have become"… its as if when people invest in the ugly, they become the very thing they hate. You'll see that on these forums also. Sad to say but true. Remember that people don't have facial expressions, or voice tone and hand gestures to soften what they say so give people the benefit of the doubt… but continual arguing is most often fruitless.

Definitely agree with this. Right on...


​

 

[Andrea411]

​

Well ladyjazz... welcome to our forum, but... So much for being upbeat and non-judging! You had a pretty rough landing when you came in here. You started out good until you added the "but." Then it went down hill. This is not the forum for this. And really... I don't think anywhere on CF would accept this.

Is this your first post on our forum? If so, then it's not a very good introduction. I too have some concerns with these four... and I could add 50 more if I were to create a list of Christians that... "somethings not right" as you say for Paula White.

Just curious... Why isn't Benny Hinn on the list? You know, Hinn and Paula!

You don't know me but you might well add my name also. I haven't quite arrived yet either, however... I am forgiven. You know what? So are they! Let us let God decide whether there is/was genuine repentance from them.

Other than that...

Welcome, and believe me... you are indeed welcome, But... suggest to (re-start up with a "hello, I'm new here"), or something to that effect.



Hmmm... yes, were still waiting on more of ladyjazz's favorites. BTW, Andrea, I highlighted the area I thought was good where you started out... but then, these next two quotes went a little down hill from there. (IMO)



Remember... Some of her exploits involved Benny Hinn, but he gets a pass? (at least on this thread).



I'm not 100% for Copeland either, but... OldDogDiver pretty well covered this part and He did quite well with a good response.



This part is not too bad at all, Andrea... and we all would agree with you about (some) Christians getting rich from the gospel, however... ending this paragraph with... "minus the prosperity gospel" goes to far. Derek Prince touches on it also. Yes, were all against "the excesses."



Definitely agree with this. Right on...


​

?? did you comment just to tell me what you thought about ME? or do you have some thoughts on the OP.

I didn't want to get into the Hinn and Paula thing. I heard but its not worth rehashing. PW is manipulative. IDK about her personal life or Hinn's. Do you?
I suppose not.

I dislike people, especially ministers who manipulate people into believing they have some special number that when you give to their ministry you will get such and such in return… that is just an out right lie.
God gives many many times over more that we give or deserve BUT its not always money. Any one with an ounce of maturity doesn't want money over the abundance of a happy life. One of the best gifts is learning to be happy without so much stuff and learning to find real joy in giving. To be able to be a part of someone's eternity is the best…
Which is where (I think) most of us have a problem criticizing ministries even when they are manipulative. Does PW ministry effect more people for the good? Are people coming to Christ and being discipled?
One of the reasons I really like Joyce Myers is the discipleship aspects of her writings and conferences. She is very encouraging and helps bring about real repentance in believers. Love her honesty about herself.

Does a minister who brings 'condemnation' bc of mistakes or their teachings harm the family of God? I don't know bc since the reformation we've had these huge splits within the church. Is all advertising good or do many fall way after scandals? I just don't know. What I think doesn't matter, the Lord is still on His throne, and the world is still under His power… even though we resist Him.
Maybe you have some thoughts as to how you would handle public scandal in the church. Whether its in the Charismatic, WoF, Protestant church, Catholic churches…or with individuals. Scandal hurts all of us… does the Lord use it for His purposes? Or do we just ignore it and say do what ever you want we'll just pretend everything is good here… don't want to be called out for criticizing anyone…. (that seems a little lame too).
God bless, andrea

 

[OldDogDiver]

“All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” - Jesus Himself speaking, John 8:7

How about taking all the energy you are spending on criticizing and bashing ministers and put it into helping others instead?

We all fall short - in many ways - but the fruit of some of these earthly vessels you are being critical of is massive for the Kingdom.

 

[Scottmcc1]

I have been to fundamental churches that teach that if you don't tithe you will be under the curse. That is the same as saying if you give me your tithe money you will be blessed.

We need to get beyond taking offense. Psalm 119:165
" Those who love Your law have great peace,
And nothing causes them to stumble." NASB
take offense KJV

When you take offense you invalidate the word of God working in your life by quenching the Holy Spirit. Listen to the teachers and throw out the bones. If there are too many bones listen to someone else.

In the past I have had trouble with Copeland. But I'll tell you this. I have been encouraged by him so much. When I need to be uplifted I go to the Believers Voice of Victory on the WEB and listen to the devotion. They have very good teachings.

They have a card of Psalm 91 they hand out to service men. This is very good. They do many good works. They teach faith well.

 

[Andrea411]

You didn't answer my questions. I gave you facts about these people you are bashing and you just came back with more bashing.

Sorry I was not aware that I was only allowed to agree with you here. The bashing is in your head. I don't see any facts I saw your opinions - which your entitled to - as I am also.

Have a nice day. andrea

 

[ladyjazz]

I regret posting this. I was watching mike murdoch one nite and got so mad i called in and told the phone lady to quit her job! Lol. Im sorry to cause arguing here. My intentions were not that, but unfortunately it turned out this way. I certainly DID NOT mean to offend or create havoc. Sorry again.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Benny Hinn- He just creeps me out.

 

[ladyjazz]

I wish theyd delete this! Sheesh, i feel terrible!