worshipping satan....

[Eby]

Eby, why would you ask for something you already have? You RECEIVED his COMPLETE forgiveness.

I realise that now thankyou and I think it was just Satan putting doubtful thoughts in my head, making me guilty and thinking I hadn't recieved full forgiveness.
That being said however, I was always brought up to believe that when we sin we have to ask for forgiveness to recieve it. I know that Christs death has paid for all my sins but I've always been told that in order to recieve forgiveness I have to ask for it. Is this not a belief held by most christians?

 

[S Walch]

Oh no, you still have to ask forgiveness for the sins you commit - every time.

Whilst yes, Yahushua the Messiah did pay the price for our sins so we don't have to, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask for forgiveness for our sins.

 

[Sharky]

Repentance and faith towards Christ saves you.

The blood of Christ is stronger than the blood pact of the devil, literally or not.

I encourage you to check out www.evidencebible.com for the FAQ's that should help you in your walk. Also has alot of questions from atheists answered.

If you're still feeling shaky then we're always around.

Love ya heaps

 

[LinuxRacr]

I realise that now thankyou and I think it was just Satan putting doubtful thoughts in my head, making me guilty and thinking I hadn't recieved full forgiveness.
That being said however, I was always brought up to believe that when we sin we have to ask for forgiveness to recieve it. I know that Christs death has paid for all my sins but I've always been told that in order to recieve forgiveness I have to ask for it. Is this not a belief held by most christians?

I grew up the same way, until one day the Lord revealed the truth to my family and I when I was 14. I came to understand by reading Hebrews 10, that we are totally forgiven, so once we accept him as our personal Lord and Savior, all we have to do is rest in His mercy and grace, and walk in a dependant relationship with Him. Sure you ask initially, but that's it. Asking over and over for something he has already given you can only be an effort on man's part to apease God, when he already said that "their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more!" Consider this: Was his forgiveness initiated by US or Him? It was Him all day!! Is asking for something you already have going to bring about more rightiousness? No! Are our standards higher than his, that we can't believe what was said in the scripture? No! Accpet the peace that comes with the truth.

 

[S Walch]

I grew up the same way, until one day the Lord revealed the truth to my family and I when I was 14. I came to understand by reading Hebrews 10, that we are totally forgiven, so once we accept him as our personal Lord and Savior, all we have to do is rest in His mercy and grace, and walk in a dependant relationship with Him. Sure you ask initially, but that's it. Asking over and over for something he has already given you can only be an effort on man's part to apease God, when he already said that "their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more!" Consider this: Was his forgiveness initiated by US or Him? It was Him all day!! Is asking for something you already have going to bring about more rightiousness? No! Are our standards higher than his, that we can't believe what was said in the scripture? No! Accept the peace that comes with the truth.

You must've missed what Jesus said to say when you pray:

"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
as we also forgive those that sin against us
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one


ANY excuse that just because you're a christian that when you sin you don't have to pray for forgiveness is absolutely preposterous.

Perhaps you should give Hebrews 6 a read as well as Hebrews 10. Also give Romans 6 a read as well.

 

[snoochface]

You must've missed what Jesus said to say when you pray:

"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
as we also forgive those that sin against us
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one


ANY excuse that just because you're a christian that when you sin you don't have to pray for forgiveness is absolutely preposterous.

Perhaps you should give Hebrews 6 a read as well as Hebrews 10. Also give Romans 6 a read as well.

I think the point is that when we sin NOW, we need to ask for forgiveness, yes - but only once. Asking over and over again because you're not sure he forgave you the first time is pointless and insulting to God's grace.

When we were saved, we were forgiven for our sins up to that point. New sins we need to ask forgiveness for. Just once.

 

[S Walch]

I think the point is that when we sin NOW, we need to ask for forgiveness, yes - but only once. Asking over and over again because you're not sure he forgave you the first time is pointless and insulting to God's grace.

When we were saved, we were forgiven for our sins up to that point. New sins we need to ask forgiveness for. Just once.

Well, yeah, that's what I was basically meaning

But those that say you don't have to ask for forgiveness when you sin when you're a christians, that's certainly contrary to Scripture.

 

[LinuxRacr]

You must've missed what Jesus said to say when you pray:

"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
as we also forgive those that sin against us
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one


ANY excuse that just because you're a christian that when you sin you don't have to pray for forgiveness is absolutely preposterous.

Perhaps you should give Hebrews 6 a read as well as Hebrews 10. Also give Romans 6 a read as well.

But remember, he was still alive when he answered that, and the new covenant hadn't yet went into effect, so each sin was still counted. After his death, he wiped the slate clean!

Check out Hebrews 10:17-18

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

According to this, sin is a done deal in the eyes of the Lord. If it wasn't, then Jesus would have to keep on dying everytime we sined, and that would mean he did an incomplete job at the cross, and we know that is not the case.

Also, in Hebrews 6, and Romans 6, I do not see anything saying you have to ask for forgiveness over and over, each time you sin.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Well, yeah, that's what I was basically meaning

But those that say you don't have to ask for forgiveness when you sin when you're a christians, that's certainly contrary to Scripture.

Yes, you ask, for it ONCE, and accept his gift of Grace when we first come to him. We confess (aknowledge) that we have sinned, and rest in his mercy. Was it something WE did to bring about his gift of Grace, or was it all him? I seriously doubt any of us were alive then. Are we the initiators, or is he? HE is always the initiator! In fact, is there anything we can do to bring about our own rightiousness? No! So why ask forgiveness for something we already have, when he gave us the gift already (before we were even born)? As humans in our infinite view of time, we forget that God is timeless. Consider this:

If you drew a timeline on a piece of paper, with the beginning, the present, and the future, God is the paper! He is timeless.

 

[LinuxRacr]

I think the point is that when we sin NOW, we need to ask for forgiveness, yes - but only once. Asking over and over again because you're not sure he forgave you the first time is pointless and insulting to God's grace.

When we were saved, we were forgiven for our sins up to that point. New sins we need to ask forgiveness for. Just once.

See above reply. How can we say that when none of us were even born then? Furthermore, at the cross he said it is finished. So since none of us were born then, how is it then that we think that he only forgave our sins up to a certain point? He forgave ALL our sins past, present, and future!

 

[snoochface]

See above reply. How can we say that when none of us were even born then? Furthermore, at the cross he said it is finished. So since none of us were born then, how is it then that we think that he only forgave our sins up to a certain point? He forgave ALL our sins past, present, and future!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


We are told in the New Testament - after Jesus' death, under the new covenant - to confess our sins and we will be forgiven.

 

[LinuxRacr]

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


We are told in the New Testament - after Jesus' death, under the new covenant - to confess our sins and we will be forgiven.

1. Confess = acknowledge. He already knows about everything we think and do, and will ever do.

2. Forgiveness and clensing is offered to the unrighteous according to the verse above. When you come to Christ, you are made righteous in him! So you would have to conclude that he is referring to the un-saved.

 

[S Walch]

1. Confess = acknowledge. He already knows about everything we think and do, and will ever do.

2. Forgiveness and clensing is offered to the unrighteous according to the verse above. When you come to Christ, you are made righteous in him! So you would have to conclude that he is referring to the un-saved.

He isn't talking to the un-saved.

He's telling them (believers) to confess their sins.

James goes on about confessing your sins in front of the Ekklesia/Church as well, and His letter is only to believers as well.

In fact, every Book after the Book of Acts, are written to believers in the respected provinces that the author is writing too.

Therefore when Paul goes on about in Romans about certain people sinning in chapter 1 - where he mentions homosexuality and other sins. Then in Chapter 2, He says to the Believers that they too are guilty of the crimes He says in chapter 1.

When you sin, you should confess your sins to Yahuweh and ask for forgiveness.

 

[intricatic]

It's getting really off-topic in here.

 

[LinuxRacr]

He isn't talking to the un-saved.

He's telling them (believers) to confess their sins.

James goes on about confessing your sins in front of the Ekklesia/Church as well, and His letter is only to believers as well.

In fact, every Book after the Book of Acts, are written to believers in the respected provinces that the author is writing too.

Therefore when Paul goes on about in Romans about certain people sinning in chapter 1 - where he mentions homosexuality and other sins. Then in Chapter 2, He says to the Believers that they too are guilty of the crimes He says in chapter 1.

When you sin, you should confess your sins to Yahuweh and ask for forgiveness.

Your premis about who the letters was written to is partially off. When Paul and Peter wrote their letters, they were writing to Christian pastors who was to read the letters to their congregations made up of saved and unsaved people (just like today). As a result, the saved were buillt up in their faith, and the unsaved had an opportunity to see the need for salvation, and come to a relationship of faith in Christ. Looking at 1 John 1 in contex, you can see that it is addressing the lost. At the time John wrote this, it was around A.D 90, and a heretical group known as the Gnostics had infiltrated the ranks of the Christian orginizations.

One of the main teachings of the Gnostics was that man didn't have a sin nature, and even if he does, it doesn't matter. John addresses this in 1 John 1: 8 and 10. Looking at verse 9, we rarely look at what is said before and after:
Before:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

After:
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So if we look at this in context, it is addressing those who believed that they had no sin. The Gnostics. The lost.

 

[Robskiwarrior]

Your premis about who the letters was written to is partially off. When Paul and Peter wrote their letters, they were writing to Christian pastors who was to read the letters to their congregations made up of saved and unsaved people (just like today). As a result, the saved were buillt up in their faith, and the unsaved had an opportunity to see the need for salvation, and come to a relationship of faith in Christ. Looking at 1 John 1 in contex, you can see that it is addressing the lost. At the time John wrote this, it was around A.D 90, and a heretical group known as the Gnostics had infiltrated the ranks of the Christian orginizations.

One of the main teachings of the Gnostics was that man didn't have a sin nature, and even if he does, it doesn't matter. John addresses this in 1 John 1: 8 and 10. Looking at verse 9, we rarely look at what is said before and after:
Before:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

After:
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So if we look at this in context, it is addressing those who believed that they had no sin. The Gnostics. The lost.

LOL I cant believe you just quoted that and told us to look at it in "context" where you have so brutally ripped it out of context!

Lets look at this again shall we...

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


That means you! the fact that it is writen as "WE" points that out, if he was talking about the unsaved it would have been "Them"


9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


(Note: "WE" again) We need to confess the sins that we commit, every person commits sin whether they are a Christian or not, they only difference is we have a way to be released from sin.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(Note: MORE "WE's")

Can't you see what he is saying?
Repentance is an ongoing daily and releasing thing, to say that you are immune from having to repent is a scarey thing to say! If that was the case you can go and do anything you like and still be a "Christian" and "Saved".

We is used for a reason, it describes everyone, including the writer.


This is getting very off topic like was already pointed out, so it might be a good idea to leave it here, you really need to realise that no one is perfect, and that a relationship with God is like anyother relationship - That includes the sorry's!!

 

[macpherson]

If God has an Adversary then he is not all powerful.
Satan, as an entity, spirit, angel, sentient being ect, does not exist in my beleif system, nor ever will.

Satan is God's henchman, he is at the behest of the all Mighty god.

 

[snoochface]

That's just not the case. As long as she repents and gives her heart and life to Jesus, she is saved. There is no sin that stops us from receiving God's grace except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[LinuxRacr]

LOL I cant believe you just quoted that and told us to look at it in "context" where you have so brutally ripped it out of context!

Lets look at this again shall we...

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


That means you! the fact that it is writen as "WE" points that out, if he was talking about the unsaved it would have been "Them"


9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


(Note: "WE" again) We need to confess the sins that we commit, every person commits sin whether they are a Christian or not, they only difference is we have a way to be released from sin.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(Note: MORE "WE's")

Can't you see what he is saying?
Repentance is an ongoing daily and releasing thing, to say that you are immune from having to repent is a scarey thing to say! If that was the case you can go and do anything you like and still be a "Christian" and "Saved".

We is used for a reason, it describes everyone, including the writer.


This is getting very off topic like was already pointed out, so it might be a good idea to leave it here, you really need to realise that no one is perfect, and that a relationship with God is like anyother relationship - That includes the sorry's!!

Yes, this is getting off-topic, but this is a good discussion. And in fact, we are givng advice about repentance. We will have to make another thread.

The first question I want to ask you is where did I say that we, or I am immune from having to repent? If you got that from what I was saying above, then you mis-read it.

Look at this, and you will see that I couldn't have meant that: http://www.christianforums.com/t3116025-repentance-for-sin.html

Now if we look at the context, we see that he is addressing the lost that were a part of the congregation(s). It is not uncommon for someone to use "WE" to include everyone in a group. He wasn't excluding at all with the "WE," but he is addressing specific people, without singling any one person out.



8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If = editorial "if".

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"If we confess our sins," is classified as a third-class conditional clause, which means that the condition stated by the "if" is in question. Paul wasn't sure if the Gnostics would agree with God concerning their sins, and turn to Him for salvation. We all know these were written in Greek, and the Greek structure of this passage shows us something like the following:

"I don't know if you are ever going to come to your senses or not, and agree with God concering your sins, (If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.)
But if at anytime--today, tomorrow, whenever--you should decide to turn to him, God can depended upon to have forgiven your sins, and to have cleansed you of all unrighteousness(If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.)."

God's mercy and forgiveness is not temporary. If it was, then Jesus died on the cross for nothing. What I am saying is that you are forgiven, and yes repentance from the things we do outside of what God would want us to do is ongoing, but repentance is not asking for forgiveness over and over. Who here has kept track of every wrong thing they have done? I have a feeling we all may have missed a thing or two, or even forgotten, but He hasn't! If we could keep track, of everything we did wrong, we would probably be up 24-7! So if our forgiveness is stricly based upon repentance that is based upon us asking forgiveness for every sin we have commited, than that would mean that we are not covered under the blood like Christ said! This is what happens when we sit around dwelling on sin. It starts to skew our relationship with Christ. He is not sitting around dwelling on your sin, so why do we? He said it is finished at the cross! Does that mean we do anything we want? NO! It means that you walk in a dependent relationship with Him, and depend on the spirit to guide you. Anytime you are not in a dependant walk with him, you will fall short.

 

[abbasdaughter]

Eby - I'd just like to pray for you...
Father - thank you for changed lives. Thank you that no person is beyond your arm of salvation. Thank you that you rescue us out of our sins, not because we deserve it, not because we've worked hard to be holy - you rescue us because you delight in us. Your love abounds much more than ANY sin - if not, then we all perish. Father, your grace abounds to this child of yours. Teach him to stand in it. By Your Spirit fill him with all power to walk in a manner worthy of the grace that You have lavished upon him. Teach him to resist the enemy, standing firm in his faith, with Your truth, Your righteousness, Your Peace, his mind guarded by the salvation that You have bought and paid for with the precious blood of the Lamb. Fill his mouth with Your word to wield the sword of truth against the lies of the enemy and fill Him with faith to stand against the accusations of the adversary and the accusations and condemnation of his own flesh. Call him to Your throne of grace that he might run boldly to You in full assurance of faith, confessing all that might hinder him from abundance and victory, and then shower him with the grace and mercy that You promise to give in his time of need. Restore him to a powerful life in Your Spirit and make him strong, firm and steadfast. To You alone be the power and glory forever and ever. Amen.

**I'm in agreement that it is not "required" that we ask for forgiveness once we have received full forgiveness of sin - but God does not admonish us to QUIT asking for forgiveness of sins anywhere either. Confession (agreeing with God) and repentance (turning our back on our sin and walking in the righteousness that is ours in Christ) are necessary for us to walk in the freedom purchased for us in Christ. Many people feel the need to ask for forgiveness for particular sins they commit - I don't believe God despises this - I believe it is ONE of the signs of a humble heart and a desire to please God. So whether you ask or whether you don't is between you and your Lord - but standing in the forgiveness that He has bought, that He has died for... well, that we are obliged to do! For without faith (in God and in His character, work, ways...) it is impossible to please God for we must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Eby - Stand firm in the knowledge of the grace that has been given to you and grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Abbasdaughter